Articles on this Page
- 07/09/18--21:13: _God's Most Favorite...
- 07/10/18--10:19: _Hot Facebook Group ...
- 07/10/18--10:20: _PCG: Another Suicid...
- 07/10/18--20:49: _PCG: Kieren Underwo...
- 07/12/18--20:59: _Self-Appointed COG ...
- 07/13/18--17:10: _God strikes down Se...
- 07/14/18--07:46: _How the Church of G...
- 07/14/18--07:46: _King Gerald Flurry,...
- 07/14/18--17:24: _Restored Church of ...
- 07/14/18--22:31: _1980/1981 Spanish D...
- 07/15/18--21:51: _Living Church of Go...
- 07/16/18--13:53: _Today's teens are l...
- 07/16/18--21:58: _LCG: The Culture of...
- 07/17/18--10:04: _Insiders/Outsiders:...
- 07/17/18--19:59: _Galatians: The Book...
- 07/19/18--17:53: _Dennis Leap On Prop...
- 07/21/18--16:25: _COG Prophet: I don...
- 07/23/18--08:33: _LCG: Gerald Weston ...
- 07/24/18--12:17: _David C Pack's Rest...
- 07/24/18--12:44: _Reader Sorrowful Ab...
- 07/10/18--10:19: Hot Facebook Group For UCG And Select COG Singles
- 07/10/18--10:20: PCG: Another Suicide Attempt Due To Aberrant Teachings
- 07/10/18--20:49: PCG: Kieren Underwood Refutes David Vejil's Article About Germany
- 07/12/18--20:59: Self-Appointed COG Prophet Claims To Know Everything About Atheists
- 07/13/18--17:10: God strikes down Second Witness...But NOT in Jerusalem!
- 07/14/18--07:46: How the Church of God Splits Happened
- 07/14/18--07:46: King Gerald Flurry, the Stone of Herb and the New Place of Safety
- 07/14/18--17:24: Restored Church of God Continues To Implode
- 07/14/18--22:31: 1980/1981 Spanish Department Break In
- 07/15/18--21:51: Living Church of God: Teens Bored With Its Message
- 07/16/18--21:58: LCG: The Culture of Insiders and Outsiders
- 07/17/18--10:04: Insiders/Outsiders: Its Impact On Church Members
- 07/19/18--17:53: Dennis Leap On Proper Child Rearing
- 07/24/18--12:44: Reader Sorrowful About This Blog: Tread Lightly
Trouble is brewing in Grover Beach, CA at the most incredible headquarters the Church of God has EVER seen in its ENTIRE history! It appears that Satan is attacking the most doubly-blessed man the church has ever had the pleasure of following. Of course, this is nothing new for the self-appointed, self-ordained and almost arrested but not arrested, Elijah Johsua, Amos Bob Thiel.
Has the church ever had such a whiny petulant crybaby such as Bob Thiel? Everyone is always out after him. Whether it is this blog, being humiliated by Rod Meredith, mocked on countless websites and blogs, or having to deal with other Church of God's who have warned their members to not listen to him. Life continues to be one crap shoot after another for poor old Bob while Satan is on his warpath to stop the magnificent word of Bob's god from going forth.
This is a group for singles age 25 and older who attend the churches of God that stayed true to the teachings of God pretty much as taught by Herbert W. Armstrong in the Worldwide Church of God. This includes United Church of God, Church of God, Worldwide, Living Church of God, Pacific Church of God, and a few others.
Please feel free to discuss all sorts of topics, but remember to keep your posts Christian-like. Be careful how your posts might be perceived by other members. What you say jokingly, might not be taken that way. Just keep this in mind. Enjoy the group!
Various Facebook groups have been having a field day with the above site. It is supposedly open to anyone 25 and over that believes in the teachings of Herbert Armstrong; not Jesus, but Herbert Armstrong.
UCG and LCG members can now date each other? Some think this is more proof that UCG and LCG are starting to canoodle up to each other. Gerald Weston will NOT be amused!
So remember folks, keep your posts Herbert W Armstrong like and things will be all rosy. If you do that you can join the 150 single perpetual bachelors on the site.
Exit and Support has another posting up about another suicide attempt in the Philadelphia Church of God due to their despicable "no contact" policy.
Another Attempted PCG Suicide:July 3, 2018Please pray for another grieving father and husband whose children came home to find their mother, a 24 year member of the PCG, unconscious after one of several suicide attempts. Praise be to God that He intervened and with the help of the medical field, she survived this attempt. Yes, PCG people, God does use doctors to save people. Flurry's no contact rulecaused a heavy burden to be placed on this poor beautiful woman when she found out her daughter, age 23, who also attended PCG was found dating outside the PCG and was kicked out, causing a great deal of pain and suffering leading to severe depression with her mother. Since her daughter left the bondage of that cult, with their rules and hoops to jump through in order to obtain salvation under the dictatorship of their so called leader, her health and disposition issues have greatly improved. Praise God!
In 2014, David Vejil wrote the above-named article for the Philadelphia Church of God. It is an attempt to prove where the people who call themselves Germans came from and what they are destined to do. Anyone with a history in the Church of God will know where the article is headed.
Germany’s recent history is marred by the two most destructive wars in human history and the most systematic genocide. Were these two world wars flukes? History shows that Germany’s ancient history is also filled with blood and violence. Just who were the ancient Germans, and where did they come from? The answers will not only surprise you, but they will also help you understand Germany’s immediate future!Several months ago, a writer for the Philadelphia Trumpet and for the Phildalephia Chruch of God left the PCG. On June 17th, I posted the resignation letter of Kieren Underwood here:
The article mentioned in Underwood's resignation letter about Germany is below:
“In his Chronik, Aventinus fabricated a succession of Teutonic kings stretching back to the Great Flood, ruling over vast swathes of Germany and surrounding regions until the 1st century BC, and involving themselves in numerous events from Biblical and Classical history.
These rulers and their exploits are mostly fictitious, though some are derived from mythological, legendary or historical figures. Examples of the latter are Boiger, Kels II and Teutenbuecher, whose joint reign is given as 127–100 BC, and who are based on King Boiorix of the Cimbri, the unnamed king of the Ambrones, and King Teutobod of the Teutons.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Aventinus)- You then move on to say that the “Assyrians were forced to settle the southern shores of the Black sea by a group of invading warriors from Central Asia.” (Who were Scythians.) You also quote Herodotus, who mentions that there are Assyrians in Cappadocia.This only proves that some Assyrians were moved to Cappadocia (by the Black Sea). Actually, the vast majority were not taken captive to this area. You can find this information in literally any history book on Assyria. After the Scythians weakened the Assyrians, the Medes, Persians and Parthians (and others) joined in on the fighting. The Assyrians were eventually conquered around 605 BC. Yet they were not taken captive and deported!“Certainly by 599 BC at the very latest, Assyria had been destroyed as an independent political entity, although it was to launch major rebellions against the Achaemenid Empire in 546 BC and 520 BC, and remained a geo-political region, ethnic entity and colonised province until the late 7th century AD, with small Assyrian states emerging in the region between the 2nd century BC and 4th century AD.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria)Even if you could prove some of those Assyrians in Cappadocia moved into Germany, the vast majority are still in Mesopotamia!
You then quote Mike Edwards from National Geographic, who is talking about the Scythians (supposedly the Scythians who are actually Assyrians): “Nomads and fierce warriors, they lived in Central Asia … and their culture spread westward to southern Russia and Ukraine, and even into Germany.”
Hmm, why is the full quote not given here? What is between the ellipsis? Here’s the full quote: “Nomads and fierce warriors, they lived in Central Asia as early as the ninth century B.C., and their culture spread westward to southern Russia and Ukraine, and even into Germany.” (http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature7/index.html)
Clearly, the full quote is not given here because it reveals that this is talking of the real Scythians—who were in Central Asia (rather than Mesopotamia) in the 9thcentury—and not the Assyrian-Scythians you claim they are.
Even if this were talking of the Assyrians, Edwards says they moved into southern Russia, Ukraine and Germany. So, is southern Russia and Ukraine also descended from Assyria then? By your logic, all three of these regions are now modern-day Assyria.
- You then quote Pliny the Elder, who says: “The name ‘Scythian’ has extended, in every direction, even to the Sarmatae and the Germans…”
So, by your own admission, the Scythians were clearly a conglomerate of a number of different peoples—all lumped together by historians. But somehow, out of all this, when some historian says Scythian and they happen to move into Europe, they must be the Assyrian-Scythians! Of course! There’s no other explanation.
- Then, under the subtitle “More Proof,” you quote Smith’s Dictionary of Biography, Mythology and Geography, “Germania”: “[T]here can be no doubt that they … migrated into Europe from the Caucasus and the countries around the Black and Caspian seas.”
Ah, here is the ellipsis again. What is being hidden here? Here is the full quote: “The Germans regarded themselves as indigenous in the country: but there can be no doubt that they were a branch of the great Indo-Germanic race, who, along with the Celts,migrated into Europe from the Caucasus and the countries around the Black and Caspian seas…” (https://archive.org/details/b2178050x)
Now, that is just ridiculous. What is removed from the quote is the most important part, because it shows that whoever the Indo-Germans were who moved (you clearly are saying it is Assyrians, but that is your assumption), they moved along with the Celts!
There are only two explanations here. (1) You failed to check the original quote in Smith’s Dictionary, or (2) you checked the original and took out the information which would incriminate the quote. This is either ignorance or outright fraud.
- You then quote Jerome who talks about numerous tribes overrunning parts of Gaul. “Quadi, Vandals, Sarmatians, Alans, Gepids, Herules, Saxons, Burgundians, Allemanni and … even Pannonians.”
By this point, you’ve pretty much given up on trying to convince the reader that these are Assyrian. You just say that historians says these are Germanic tribes, and expect the reader to realize that in your mind, Germanic already means Assyrian. So there—proven!
- You then go on to write that “the Germans and Assyrians share the same physical features, the same warlike tendencies and even certain characteristics in art.”This is almost laughable. I mean, really? The same physical characteristics? As in … light skinned? So, by that reasoning, all of Europe is also Assyria, and also Britain and America, oh, and Russia as well. As for their warlike characteristics, here is a real historian’s analysis:
While the reputation for decisive, ruthless, military tactics is understandable, the comparison with the Nazi regime is less so. Unlike the Nazis, the Assyrians treated the conquered people they relocated well (as already addressed above) and considered them Assyrians once they had submitted to central authority. There was no concept of a 'master race' in Assyrian policies; everyone was considered an asset to the empire whether they were born Assyrian or were assimilated into the culture. Kriwaczek notes, “In truth, Assyrian warfare was no more savage than that of other contemporary states. Nor, indeed, were the Assyrians notably crueler than the Romans, who made a point of lining their roads with thousands of victims of crucifixion dying in agony.” (https://www.ancient.eu/assyria/)And then you go on to give approximately … no proof about them having “certain characteristics in art.”
- Finally, “the clincher,” as you say, is that no other country “could fulfill the prophecies of the Bible that pertain to Germany.”
Do you give any reasoning for this? No. Just read our booklet Germany and the Holy Roman Empire, which also assumes Assyria is Germany! You could prove literally anything with this circular reasoning.
I wonder what the Assyrian Church of the East thinks about the fact that you believe they are so deceived that they do not even realize they are not in fact Assyrian! If they are not Assyrian, then what are they? This is never, ever addressed by anyone who claims that Germany is modern-day Assyria.
You have two options. (1) Research this article again and provide proper reasoning and proof that Germany is modern-day Assyria. (2) Admit that this whole effort is a complete fabrication, and denounce the article you have written.
I am confident that if you put any serious time and thought into this, you will choose option (2).
Why is it that certified liars who have self-appointed themselves as COG leaders, prophets, teachers and self-appointed scholars think they know everything about everything? Why do they feel the need to lambast others outside their groups when the Church of God community is one of the biggest messes that can ever be imagined? Arrogant and despotic leaders are wrecking peoples lives. Hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups all doing what they want with nothing truly unifying them. On and on they go casting stones from their fragile glass houses.
Anyway, back to the antics of the self-appointed and improperly doubly blessed Elijah Bob Thiel. He claims to know WHY there are atheists. The problems with Thiel's exposes starts in the very first sentence. For many years now he has mocked the magazine Christianity Today as "improperly named" because he thinks they are not real Christians. Like any good Armstrongite, he believes there are no Christians outside the Armstrongite circle of Church of God's. But anytime he finds an article that supports his erroneous beliefs he latches on to its proof he is correct. Hypocrisy is never something he thinks about when he opens his mouth.
False teacher Thiel writes in Why are there atheists?
At the Christianity Today website, an author (Shawn Graves) asked and provided some answers to the question, Why are there still atheists?A lot of ink has been spilled over whether God exists. Within this context, some theists like to point out that “God has made it plain” that he exists, that “God’s invisible qualities … have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse” (Rom. 1:19-20). They urge us to remember that the “heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands” (Ps. 19:1). In a recent Christianity Today article, Jim Spiegel cites these passages and writes: “This naturally prompts the question: If the evidence for God is so abundant, then why are there atheists?”
Spiegel asserts that for many atheists, it’s not “cool, rational inquiry” that led to their atheism. Rather, in many cases it’s complex moral and psychological factors that produce atheism. For example, Spiegel points to research suggesting that some prominent atheists had broken, defective relationships with their fathers. Others live in perpetual disobedience and rebellion—resisting lifestyle changes required upon adopting theism. And still others confess that they just don’t want there to be a God. Spiegel contends that immorality has cognitive consequences—it impedes one’s ability to recognize that theism is true.
Then the craziness begins. He believes that the reason evolution came into being was that there were a bunch of fornicating sex-obsessed men who could not keep their pants zipped up. Nevermind the fact that many COG leaders had the same problem, but that is another story to contemplate.No doubt he’s right. Surely some people accept atheism due in part to such powerful motivational factors. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/marchweb-only/whytherearestillatheists.html
Next, he blames evangelical Christians as being people with no morals:Now, actually one of the reasons that there are evolutionary atheists is, believe it or not, in the 19th century various male “intellectual” were looking for excuses to not have to abide by biblical standards of sexual morality. And back then, some of them even admitted that is why they embraced the concept that life randomly evolved without a creator God.
Fornication in the Church of God has been going on for 80 some years now and very actively as many know. Then look at the immoral lives of many of the COG leaders and higher up ministers. Don't look at or blame evangelicals till your own house is in order!I would also add hypocrisy to the list. The fact that evangelicals, for one example, are more likely to be involved with fornication than the general public, despite biblical admonitions against it, turns people off.
War apparently also creates atheists, at least in the improperly self-appointed scholar Thiel's eyes.
War is another factor. Many non-believers point to religions such as Islam, Catholicism, and Protestantism as major causes of war, which turns many people off to the idea that there is a truly loving God. But of course, all scholars realize that early Christians would not participate in carnal warfare. And in my opinion, this is still true of faithful Christians today .Next, he takes a dig at Bart Ehrman:
Thus, the improperly named scholar Thiel proclaims that it is "...illogical to be an atheist."There are also scholars, for example, like Bart Ehrman, who started out as Protestant but when they learned more about church history, realized that Protestantism simply did not fit with much of the Bible. And while he may be more of an agnostic than an atheist, the fact that most of what is considered by the world to be Christianity, is not Christianity, and this turns many off of religion (though it does not necessarily make them atheists).
I can honestly say that I would rather sit at the table and have a conversation with Bart Ehrman than I would at a table with a COG leader running off their self-righteous mouths. They seem to forget that Jesus would do the exact same thing. Eating dinner with prostitutes, tax collectors, and unbelievers was his thing to do. Can you imagine any COG leader doing that today?But I would like to add that it is illogical to be an atheist. While there may be many reasons that people may doubt the existence of a personal God, such as the one that the Bible teaches about, the reality is that any that conclude that there cannot be a creator/god are being foolish:1 The fool has said in his heart,”There is no God.” (Psalms 14:1, NKJV)
The Church of God should be on its knees begging forgiveness for destroying the lives of its members and ripping out any bit of spirituality that they may have originally had when they joined the church. The families that had marriages ripped apart because immoral divorce and remarriage doctrines, the thousands of lives lost due to faith "healing" thanks to the church deciding doctors were agents of Satan, to the hundreds, if not thousands that have died from suicide over the decades due to the way the church treated them, to the people gunned down in church thanks to filth from Rod Meredith's sermons, and to its continued path of making church members feel like unworthy worms in God's sight.
Here is what the improper scholar says that makes atheists fools:
One of the reasons that it is foolish to conclude that there is no God is because humans should realize that we are finite beings. No human has been to ever place in the universe, no human has lived forever, no human has been to every possible dimension that may exist in the universe. Since no human has done that, for any human to conclude that there cannot be a god or any type is illogical. Why? Because no human has enough possible proof that God cannot exist. Doing so with limited “evidence” is foolish.
He concludes with this:Furthermore, if the laws of bioscience are accepted as valid, one can easily prove that something outside of those laws (God) was necessary for life to begin and to continue. Amino acids simply did not randomly line up, become alive, realize that they had to eat, realize that they had to have a means to eat, immediately have a way to utilize food (like a properly developed digestive system), realize they had to reproduce for survival of life, and have the means to do so. It is illogical to conclude otherwise.
Faithful people throughout the centuries of the church have struggled with faith due to doubt and questions. It is not something that is wrong. The entire belief system of Judaism allows people to question and dialogue over belief and unbelief. Even in scripture people have been allowed to question and wrestle with God. Armstrongism taught its followers to never question and be blindly obedient. Wrestling with sculpture has never been an aspect of the Armstrongite version of the church.But, despite the fact that some claim to be atheists, God’s existence is logical.
Armstrongism and a lot of Christianity come up with lots of non-spiritual reasons why it exists: fear, guilt, shame, and the need or desire for authority in one's life. Many, if not most are unwilling to think critically.
One question that might be asked is: If it is so absolutely vital to get church right, why does God have to speak through contradictory and competing middlemen who have muddied the waters for 3,000 years?
The Church of God has always been blessed by having so many prophets, scholars, and end times witnesses in its midst. While a few have been women though the overwhelming majority are self-appointed men who feel they have a higher calling than the dumb sheeple and therefore need to be heard.
Well over ten years ago one of the biggest liars in the Church of God proclaimed himself one of the end time Two Witnesses. Ron Weinland went on to make many SURE predictions and prophecies that we all now know to be complete utter bullshit. 2008 came and went as Weinland was publicly humiliated in San Francisco at an Idea City conference:
"I don't recall anywhere in Rev 11, where God makes His #1 prophet/servant sick and disabled. How are the TWs going to do there job, if the lead man is sick and disabled? Did God drop the ball? Did God forget to give Ron the health he needs to do his job? Or MAYBE Ron is a false prophet?"
"(Rev 11:3) And I will give [power] to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.
How hard can it be? If you just believe what is written, it's easy....
THEY BOTH TESTIFY. The verse is plain, the English is clear, BOTH witnesses testify. They both do it EVERY DAY for 1260 days. They don't testify/preach/prophecy on Monday, and then take the rest of the week off. They don't go on cruises and get deep tissue massages, while browsing through the Fredrik's of Hollywood catalog for expensive panties. They both work and they both preach for 1260 days.
1) BOTH the Two Witnesses are MEN (YLT Zec 4:14 And he said, These are the two sons of fresh oil who stand by Jehovah of the whole earth. )
Instead of making excuses by trying to force the verse to mean "children" instead of "sons", why not just believe what is plainly stated? IT'S SO EASY. Believing the truth is easy, believing lies is hard work.
2) They both prophesy
3) They both defend themselves if necessary, by killing their enemies by breathing fire on them (they are COMMANDED by God to kill their enemies, it is not an "option")
4) They both stand toe to toe facing the Beast Leader and his army.
5) They turn rivers to blood
6) They cause droughts for as long as they wish
7) They have discretion to call down as many plagues as they please
8) They both get martyred
9) They both get resurrected
10) As "payment", 7000 give their lives for killing these two prophets...
False prophet Bob Thiel no longer needs to worry about sharing Petra with at least one Church of God. It seems that Gerald Flurry has a new place of safety that he is taking the Stone of Herb to so his creature "jesus" can come and sit on it. While Gerald is in his new place of safety he will be the true King that the true Church of God members will look to as the final authority as they are trained to rule the world.
His new place of safety is Adullam, located between Jerusalem and the Gaza strip. Adullam was first mentioned in Gen 38:1 and Micah 1:15. Adullam is the place that David supposedly escaped to when he was running from Saul.
Could this king be someone outside God’s one true Church? That would be impossible. This king is speaking the truth and hasting righteousness, so it must be a converted member in God’s Church.
God has to have a king in this Church who is a descendant of David. And we also must have a stone that is a symbol of David’s throne. God has given us a new stone. The stone is alwaysassociated with the throne—not only as a symbol of the throne, but also a symbol of our Rock, our Leader, Jesus Christ!
It was right around January 16, 2017, that God revealed the truth about the new stone of destiny.
And it was on this date that God moved the throne of David to this Church!God is getting us ready to go to the place of safety where David’s throne is prophesied to be. There is a new king and a new stone. There has to be for this prophecy to be fulfilled! And this new king would have to be God’s apostle, at least for this time.
The prayer rock, the new symbol of David’s throne, also came to us through a descendant of David, Herbert W. Armstrong. And it all happened around January 16, 2017, the anniversary of his death.
God made all these things happen miraculously. This is all prophesied, and God has brought it about in a way that is truly mind-staggering when you think about it.
King James BibleYet will I bring an heir unto thee, O inhabitant of Mareshah: he shall come unto Adullam the glory of Israel.
The book of Micah has some key scriptures we can better understand in light of this new revelation.
This book covers a span of time from just before the Great Tribulation to a time far into the Millennium. It prophesies what will happen to God’s people during the Tribulation.
Micah 1:9 says, “For her wound is incurable ....” This is a time when the nations of Israel are sick with an incurable wound—a life-threatening condition that cannot be healed! Their only hope is to go through the holocaust of the Tribulation.
“Make thee bald, and poll thee for thy delicate children; enlarge thy baldness as the eagle; for they are gone into captivity from thee” (verse 16). Here is a descriptive warning of what is about to come upon national Israel. Think of the symbol of the United States, the bald eagle. God says the baldness of Israel is going to be enlarged as its people go into captivity! During the Great Tribulation, they will suffer as never before!
Now—what will happen to God’s people during that time? Verse 15 says, “Yet will I bring an heir unto thee, O inhabitant of Mareshah: he shall come unto Adullam the glory of Israel.” This translation is a little awkward. The word Mareshah means summit, or chief place. And the New King James Version reads:
“... The glory of Israel shall come to Adullam.”
Where is Adullam? This was the cave to which David escaped when he was on the run from King Saul (1 Samuel 22:1). Remember, Micah is an end-time book. Here is a prophecy of a time when “the glory of Israel” will come to a cave, or rocky fortress. The Cambridge Bible Commentary says it is “the worthy part of Israel” that goes to Adullam. The Soncino commentary says, “[T]he phrase means that Israel’s nobility will take refuge in a cave” (emphasis mine throughout). Who are the nobility of israel? They are the people who have the throne of David!
They are spiritual Israel, or God’s true Church.
God considers these people worthy to take responsibility for David’s throne. That is a lot of responsibility! But these people are God’s nobility! What greater nobility is there than having David’s throne?
David escaped to the cave of Adullam along with several hundred people. Prophecy shows that, in the end time, God’s people will have to escape to a cave as well. They will go to a rocky fortress to escape the Holy Roman Empire, which has been chasing them for centuries! The Church had to flee into the wilderness for 1,260 years (Revelation 12:6—described prophetically as “days”). Now, we will have to flee for 1,260 days (verse 14). When we do, we will take with us the throne of David.
We must be prepared to go to the cave of Adullam, the place of safety. Make this a part of your thinking, because we live in the most urgent time ever! We must be willing to go anyplace and do anything God wants. We must get our minds conditioned to do that! He often offers opportunities or directs us to do things we don’t want to do, humanly. We all have to do things we would rather not do; that is good for us! We must have the mindset that whatever God says, we will do. That will bring the most wonderful reward you could possibly receive!
You can review the history: David and God’s people came to power shortly after he left that cave. God says that immediately after we leave this rocky fortress, the place of safety, we are going to come to power! We will rule the world with Jesus Christ on David’s throne!
Think of the honor God is giving us! What a wonderful blessing it is to have the great God give us the throne of David—which is really the throne of God—now! What a calling we have been given, and what a blessing to understand this and to know what it all means!
Micah 2:6 foretells of God’s lukewarm people trying to stop us from prophesying these things. They are not the nobility of Israel. They want to blend into the world and prophesy smooth things.
That is not the life God has called us to! Those who sit on David’s throne must obey the great God with all their being as David did, a man after God’s own heart! That is what God wants all of us to strive to be: men and women after God’s own heart!
God abundantly rewards such obedience. He promises that even in the very worst circumstances, He will protect us. As people attack us, they will fall, and we will be the only ones left standing.
There is more good news out of Wadsworth, Ohio today about David C Pack's Restored Church of God. His personality cult continues its downward spiral by more defections from his headquarters.
Over the last few months, key people have left the RCG.
Dave's right-hand man, his "Aaron Dean", left. His wife was also a longtime employee in their editorial department.
RCG's main programmer also left.
Their HR manager is gone too.
Around 1980 - 81, I was part of a scandal at Ambassador College in Pasadena. It was called “the Spanish Department Break In” and the top guys in the WCG did pretty good job of hushing it up.
Before I get into this historical recounting, I want to back up a bit and mention a few things about “The Browning of America” which got posted on Banned a few weeks ago. Byker Bob asked me for my thoughts on the comments that were being made and I never responded for a couple of reasons.
First, I can post comments to the Painful Truth site, but I can’t seem to post comments for the Banned site. It may because I’m attempting to perform this function from my phone or because I’m not the most knowledgeable when it comes to social media.
Second, I figure that my chance to talk is when I get something posted. After that, it’s everybody else’s turn to talk. At that point, it doesn’t hurt me to just sit and listen and learn.
I appreciated all the comments – even the ones that took exception to what was in my script. (Yes, what was published was only a script for a “Start Our Sabbath” program. It was never intended to be a finished article.)
I have been asked if it bothers me when people on Banned disagree with what I write. To that, I always respond with, “Of course not. I expect the readers of Banned to disagree with a lot of what I say. Disagreement is part of the exercise. This is healthy. If disagreement bothers me, I have no business sending material to Banned.”
Further, I always point out that, when Banned’s readers have disagreed with me, they have never gotten personal or hateful as I have experienced in the COGs where church leaders and their wives have said things about me like:
n Wes is looks like Shemp Howard of the Three Stooges.n Wes’ long hair makes him look like an ugly old woman.n Wes’ motive is to become the face of our church organization.n Even though Wes is a member of our organization, “he has no standing.”
I have found that any disagreement with me on Banned is always issue-oriented and never gets into personal attacks. Again, I think that issue-oriented discussion is healthy and necessary. When a guy preaches something or writes something, he doesn’t deserve a free pass. No one. Including me.
So again, I am grateful to Banned for allowing me to post material.
Now, for the story of the Spanish department break in.
In either late 1980 or early 1981, I was approached by one of HWA’s aids. He was gunning for Tom Turk, who was the director of the church’s office in Mexico City. This HWA aid wanted to get rid of Tom and replace him with Robert Flores Jr, the aid’s good friend. I have never been given any indication that Robert had anything to do with the events I am about to describe.
HWA’s aid told me that there were “illegal things” going on in the Spanish department and that he needed to get this information to HWA so HWA could fix it. So the aid told me it would be helpful if I were to participate in a late-night break-in of Leon Walker’s office. Leon was the head of the Spanish department.
I was leery of the whole idea and told him, “You don’t need me to break into the Spanish department offices. You can get into any office on campus that you want.” I reminded him of how he and his cohorts had done a midnight raid of the Ambassador Faculty offices a few months prior. They had brought with them a bunch of manila envelopes. Each envelope had the name of a faculty member. The burglars also brought many typewriter ribbons to match the various typewriters in the offices of the faculty. When they entered a faculty member’s office, they took the typewriter ribbon from his typewriter and replaced that used ribbon with a new one. They put the used ribbon in the corresponding envelope for later review. The next morning, the faculty member would have no idea that someone had taken his ribbon. The HWA aid and his cohorts then spent the next few days painstakingly reading what had been typed on the typewriter ribbon. BTW, the only “bad” information they found was that Dave Albert had written a letter to Bell & Howell to apply for a job.
After I expressed my concerns to HWA’s aid, he told me why he wanted me to join him in this expedition. He said he actually needed my Spanish-speaking wife to go on the mission. She was bilingual and an employee of the Spanish department.
At the time, I was married to Linda Hardy White. After 25 years of marriage, she died of ALS in 2003 and I have since remarried. The aid told me that he needed Linda to translate documents for him while going thru Leon’s office. My presence was needed because he felt it was “inappropriate” for him to be in a building alone at night with a woman without her husband there. My next thought was, “Great. I get to be a chaperone for two felons.”
So, in an effort to aid “the apostle” in his work as the “head of the church,” I consented.
I make no excuse for participating in this horrible act. It was illegal and immoral and unethical. I never should have done it.
So, on a Friday evening around 10:00 pm, the aid (with the assistance of a college maintenance employee who disabled the alarm systems) took Linda and me into the Spanish department and we did our “investigation.” HWA’s aid had flashlights, a tiny camera he had bought in Hong Kong, a small tape recorder, and a few other Watergate burglar-type items.
If you know anything about Leon Walker, you will not be surprised to learn that we found nothing incriminating in Leon’s office. Absolutely nothing. I was relieved because I really liked Leon.
By Monday morning, my guilt feelings were kicking into overdrive, so I went to Leon and confessed the whole thing. He recommended I tell HWA.
The next question for me was: “How do I do this?” HWA lived in Tucson. He was afraid to enter California because he might be served with a subpoena.
We didn’t have email back in those days. And, if you wrote to HWA, you had to type your letter on a special typewriter that had extra-large print because his eye sight was so limited. Back then, we had no personal computers with various small-to-large font sizes.
So I went to HWA’s executive offices on the fourth floor of the Administration building and asked if I could type a letter on their big-print typewriter. Stan Rader’s secretary begrudgingly obliged me. After I typed the letter, I gave it to her and asked if she would fax it to HWA in Tucson. There were very few fax machines on campus in 1980. She rolled her eyes and agreed to do this for me.
Several weeks later on President’s Day 1981, my boss (Raymond McNair) showed up at my house, told me to put on a suit, and informed me we were going to Burbank Airport to see the apostle on his private jet.
When Raymond and I arrived at the airport, he told me that HWA would not be getting off the plane. Process servers, remember? So we boarded and sat down with HWA and Leon Walker and Greg Albrecht. I believe Bill Stenger and Leroy Neff were there.
Right off the bat, HWA thundered his first question to me, “Who made you write this letter?!?” I was insulted. I stiffened and told him that no one made me write the letter. He told me that, if I lied to him, I would be struck dead in the same way that Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead after they had lied to Peter. He again tried to get me to say that I was forced to write the letter. I wouldn’t budge. We were at a stalemate.
Then he started insisting that Stan Rader made me write the letter. I really denied that one. After a few minutes of this badgering, Leon Walker (bless his heart) came to my rescue. He informed HWA that it was he (Leon) who had recommended I tell HWA about the break in.
So the apostle shifted gears. He then started berating me because he said I had no business involving Rader’s secretary in the matter. (He didn’t want Rader to know about the break in.) I told HWA that the Executive office was the only place on campus I knew of that had a big print typewriter and fax machine. Then Leon intervened again. Bless his heart. He told HWA that he shouldn’t fault me for working with Rader’s secretary on this because (he reminded HWA) he (HWA) had only recently written a front page article in the Pastor General’s Report that heaped high praise on Rader’s secretary.
I will never forget HWA’s response. He said plaintively, “I had to write those nice things about her because she threatened to go to the press about me!” I thought he was about to cry.
This was a bombshell. First, what information could this woman have on him that scared him so much? And second, he was admitting to several of us that he wrote things in the Pastor General’s Report that were false!
I already had my doubts about his leadership before I got on that plane. I mean, I had already figured out that his teachings on interracial marriage were totally off base. And I had already figured out that his practice of marking and disfellowship was the antithesis of Christian love. His admission regarding lying about Rader’s secretary was the coup de grace for me. From that moment forward, he had lost all credibility in my eyes.
But my story doesn’t end here. My punishment was that I was temporarily banned from being in California. Linda and I would be sent anywhere outside of California where we wanted to go and live for six months (on probation) so that I could “think about things.” I gladly complied with leaving because I reasoned I would soon be exonerated and that, when I returned to Pasadena, I would find that things had been cleaned up at headquarters. After all, I had given HWA the smoking gun which clearly showed the corruption that was right there in his executive office.
Was I naïve or what? I would have been better off trying to buy some bridge in Brooklyn.
Needless to say, things did NOT get cleaned up. They only got worse. A month or two later, HWA wrote in the Pastor General’s Report that “there was no Spanish department break in.” Not true. There was a break in. I was part of it.
Then, about six months into my banishment, I received a call from another of HWA’s aids. He asked me to recant of my claim of a Spanish department break in. I stood firm that there had been one.
Finally, I received a call from Raymond McNair, asking me to return to Pasadena. I refused. By that time, the gig was up. I saw what these guys were all about. Shortly thereafter, I resigned.
This is not a story of how Wes got screwed. I brought this situation onto myself. I ask for no pity and deserve none.
Rather, this is a story of how Wes got delivered from the jaws of men who were doing evil things. God blessed me with an escape from that loony bin. I left Ambassador and got a job in the real world where I learned real-world skills. I was able to have a career until I retired in 2014.
Many of those poor guys who worked in Pasadena or in the field ministry have not been so blessed. Today, many of them have no career skills. They have no pension – no 401K -- no Social Security. They’re stuck working for one of the Armstrong offshoot organizations because they have no other prospects for real employment. Many of them don’t agree with what’s being preached by their churches. They don’t agree with the way things are run. Yet they stay because they have nowhere else to go.
Further, they are scared because they have no other options when it comes to putting food on the table for their families. I understand that some people reading this will gleefully say these guys deserve every bit of the misery under which they suffer. They may indeed deserve it. That’s not a judgment for me to make.
The point is that I have sympathy for anyone who suffers – even those who have brought their misery on themselves. To be sure, I would sympathize with them more if they would admit their guilt and repent of it. So many of them have done so much damage.
Let’s conclude this story.
I praise God that He got me out of that viper’s nest! My escape had nothing to do with my own goodness. It has everything to do with God’s mercy.
People who I know in the COGs get upset with me when they see my posts on Banned and on the Painful Truth. They demand to know why I am in communication with these blog sites. Long ago, I gave up trying to explain to them that I view the blog sites as watchdogs against the tyranny of the Armstrong movement. Usually, these blog sites are the only place people can go to hear the other side of the story.
So I am relating this break in incident as accurately as I humanly can for the purpose of making sure that we retain as much of our church history as we can. Warts and all. Even bad stuff done by me. I mean, isn’t the Bible full of accounts that show the sins of so many people?
Also, we’ve got to learn from our past. The WCG was so dysfunctional in so many ways. (Understatement of the year?) One of the organization’s dysfunctionalities was that they were so deficient in showing Christian love for one another. No matter how you try to spin it, breaking into someone’s office was not an act of love. It was a horrible thing to do. I confess my sin so that others can learn from my mistake.
Again, my thanks to Banned for this opportunity to relate history and to discuss the current state of affairs in the COGs. There is so much that needs to be fixed in so many of these offshoots. I don’t criticize their behavior and teachings out of malice. I criticize them in the hope they will change and learn to exercise more of Matthew 5, 6, and 7 in their dealings with those they serve.
One of the things several of the Church of God's started doing soon after they left the mother church was to develop "Winter Family Weekends." This is always centred around Christmas season when kids are out of school and families can travel. The problem was these weekends are always held in resorts decked out with Christmas cheer, from decorations, to food, and to family and community togetherness.
The sad part is that the teens of these Churches of God's see all of this and compare it to the boring atmosphere that the church delivers to them.
Living Church of God's youth has been particularly bored by the endless messages that have no meaning to them and/or counteracts what they see going on in the lives of their friends and families in their community.
They are subjected to endless sermons about sex, sex and more sex. You don't bombard hormonal youth with endless messages about what you CANNOT do. That ends up being fertile ground for sending youth out to explore and experiment.
At a recent Winter Weekend, the ministry had an open discussion with the youth of the church. The ministry encouraged the teens present to make their opinions known about how they feel about the church. Several of the teens came right out and told the ministers that the telecast was BORING and that the webcasts were just miniature versions of the same boring telecasts. You can imagine how well that went down with the ministers present!
The youth of LCG are encouraged to disconnect with their communities and to stay away from the EVIL influences of the world that they are endlessly harangued about, so imagine what it feels like to be also disconnected from your own church that claims to be God's one true church.
It is no wonder that so many of the youth in LCG and other COG's leave the church when they head off to college or to live their own lives.
What would you do as a youth if you had to listen to Gerald Weston who is considered one of the most boring speakers in LCG? When even adults are bored by him, what do you expect the youth to be feeling? How do you expect adults to coddle up to Weston when even he himself says he is boring?
Many parents in LCG quietly question how he can claim to know so much about raising children when he has none. Living Church of God members do find it a bit odd that he, of all people in LCG, would be the guy dictating everything about the summer camps and anything involving LCG youth?
But, this is LCG after all. These youth expressed their opinions over two years ago and still, NOTHING has been done. The youth are still bored and the youth are still leaving.
When has the ministry EVER TRULY listened to their members?
From a reader here:
Today's teens are light years ahead of the ACOG's in many, many areas.
They are a well informed, device-laden, information-ready, active generation. Their schools are interactive, their music and interests are digital. Even the ones born in COG's thanks to their schools and their smart devices. They hear anything, they can look it up in literally seconds to find either the refutation or acknowledgement of the statement. They are not bored with what is offered. (Call it "the World", if you wish.) They ARE bored with the COG's.
Let's look at what MAINSTREAM CONTEMPORARY Christianity offers teenagers that COG's do not, and will not.
1. A Dedicated Youth Pastor specifically hired and trained to meet the spiritual needs of teenagers.
2. A Dedicated Youth Service specifically designed to engage and teach the issues and concerns of teenagers.
3. Wholesome Christian Music by a special Teen Praise Team where teens can worship God with music and song.
4. Mission Trips to impoverished places to help teens learn how to help others and spread the Good News of Jesus Christ.
Here is what the COG's offer the teens during Sabbath Services.
1. Sermons about everything they cannot do.
2. Sermons about adult material they are not ready for, nor should have to hear.
3. Sermons about some historical thingamajig in a place called whatchamacallit.
4. Sermons given by a person who has no idea how to give a sermon.
5. Sermons about marriage or child rearing they have no reason to stay awake for.
6. Corrective sermons that a kid should not have to hear.
7. Sermons about demons, satan, and the paranormal that are approached in a far too adult and descriptive manner.
8. Special music, that to the teens, is not special.
9. A great time to catch a nod off while making sure not to realllly fall asleep.
10. Endless recitations of scripture without engaging content. Just write it down on the notepad and close your eyes again.
This has been a COG Culture for as long as the COG's have been around, from Radio to Worldwide to the scattered churches. The problem is - the Youth and Teens have changed. The Church structure and ministers have not.
They are NOT meeting the needs of the youth. The Mainstream Churches have far more superior programs because they have invested time, money, and skill to the cause. The COG's thought that a big sports program, summer camps, and youth trips would be enough to keep them in while making them listen to their main sabbath services. These days - it's much different.
I'm pretty sure it's just as boring as being in detention at school - or sitting at a library for two hours. I wonder just how many teens sneak their cell phones out during services without the pastor knowing about it.
IF THEY WANTED to, they could develop a cohesive program that could at least be a start to make the youth feel welcomed and fed. But they do not. So the teens leave, and then the COG's wonder where they all went to.
From an LCG source:
I think there is definitely an insiders vs. outsiders kind of culture.
For those on the inside—families with money, who make big donations, and people who are in or related through marriage to the "insider" families—I'm sure life is great. They've got tons of family at all the LCG events, and their personal shortcomings are more tolerated.
Outsiders have a very different experience. You go around thinking you should be feeling this whole "brethren in Christ" thing, but it never really works. It's easy for the insiders because they ARE family. But the rest of us are just there to make up the numbers.In a sense, you can't complain, because that's how all human institutions work. Except, this one CLAIMS to be different. The only real difference is there's a heavy dose of self-righteousness on top of everything else.
This is the way it was in WCG. Exactly. No exceptions. It is a clear picture of the way things were.
I spent my teen years in Y.O.U. in the Worldwide Church of God.
There were the teenagers of the big contributors and the "important" people. The money makers, the pastor and assistant pastors kids, the "cool" kids, and of course, the athletes. They had their groups completely set.
Then there were the rest of us. The shy, the loners, and the children of the poor and quite frankly, the weird and wacky. I was one of those.
Putting it nicely, you knew your place. I'll call the former group group "A" and the latter group that I was in group "B".
There was no way you could get into group "A". They'd mock you, make fun of you. The girls would make it totally clear they were not willing to dance with you at any Y.O.U. dance function. I still see the "grimace" on one girl's face that time I asked her to dance with me to this day. It was the day my self-worth and self-confidence really took a nosedive. I remember the time they made fun of how I dressed because I was wearing suits 20 years out of date because my parents could not afford new suits because of the tithing policies, in part. I remember the looks they'd give me from their cliques when I walked in, or how they'd walk away when I approached. During events when they HAD to interact, it was cool and forced. A relative of mine of the same age, under peer pressure, even ignored me completely because I was in group "B". They were the insiders. I was an outsider. We were in the same group, and the same church. And I knew it. And the parents sanctioned or supported this behavior. Some may be quick to judge that it was somehow my fault, because I was poor or trying to hard to make friends, or home-schooled, and the church was my only source of interaction. Maybe, but that's not the point. The point is the clear insider-outsider behavior and the impact it had on people like me.
This makes sense when you think of what became of the "Insiders" in the WCG back in the day. Who became the pastors? Who got sent to Ambassador College? Who were the ones that had such incredible experiences and memories in the church? Who ARE the ones today who sit in high places casting judgement and condemnation at their whim? I submit they are the very ones who were in "Group A" 20 to 40 years ago - who's attitudes and behaviors never changed a bit from the way they were back then. The very ones who were arrogant, condescending bullies who made fun of the weak and the poor I submit are the very ones who occupy the pastor's chairs or the leader's chairs today. They are also the very ones who think we're crazy or it's our fault when we share our experiences because they can not relate.
It's this insider vs outsider clique culture which explains so much of the behavior of the COG's, from the top to the bottom.
Dennis Leap, of all people, has an article up on the Philadelphia Church of God site about proper child training. He claims that since PCG is God's only church, that proper child rearing teachings can only be found in PCG:
Ah yes, God apparently channelled into Gerald Flurry's head that he should force parents to cut off all ties with their children if they are no longer part of the PCG. God also apparently tells PCG ministers to take their disabled kids and dump them at the local mall so the government can take care of them. God also apparently tells PCG leaders to bombard the mids of members with so much depressing anti-biblical bullshit that people are driven to suicide. Yep, that sure is "godly child rearing."
Gerald Flurry gets his child-rearing teachings from another man who was not qualified to be teaching members how to rear their children. Herbert Armstrong was a failure as a father to his children. He treated them at times with utter contempt, so much so that every single one of them left the church. And don't forget the incest! Yes, he was the grand poohbah of proper child-rearing techniques, never forget that!
Never forget that Herbert Armstrong was also the epitome of what a true marriage should look like. Let your first wife die because you were too big of an ass to take her to the hospital and have her colon blockage taken care of. Yes, digging in ones heals and blaming church members for his wife's death instead of taking the blame himself is the epitome of a "true godly marriage."
And don't' forget his second "godly marriage" that even serial adulterer Garner Ted knew was doomed to failure! So much for creating any future god's to be part of the grand plan! Even his stepson deserted him.
So just what is that previous knowledge that HWA and Flurry have to give to the world and the church? It is the belief that Satan enters the minds of babies almost a soon as they are born and it is a constant battle thereafter.
The entire world is cut off from proper child rearing techniques because the world has refused to read the Mystery of the Ages. All essential truth necessary for salvation is found in this book. Anyone who reads it will immediately know how to raise their children to be just like the kids of Herbert Armstrong! Woo Hoo!
All children outside the Philadelphia Church of God are cut off from God. Seriously? Do these hypocritical jackasses actually believe this? Oh wait, they do. So please explain to me how the child of the parents who dumped it at the mall, is blessed because its parents are "converted?"
Mr. Armstrong wrote, “While other people—not members of the true body of Christ—and all other children are cut off from access to God,—can believe in Christ—are not cut off from God—and much of God’s truth, even though as yet too young to be converted. But they are a to God!” (ibid). Do we get what Mr. Armstrong is teaching here? Children of members can have a relationship with Christ and come to understand God’s truth because of their parents’ calling. Mr. Armstrong adds that they are a special treasure to God. How inspiring, exciting and thrilling! Do we realize what a sacred treasure our children are?
Mr. Armstrong viewed this as “important new knowledge” that should be received “eagerly.” This was not just Mr. Armstrong’s, or any other man’s, view—it was new revelation given from the Bible by God, specifically for God’s Church. Mr. Armstrong did not understand this truth until the mid-1970s. Yet the Apostle Paul had explained about the special category of members’ children nearly 1,900 years earlier. The incredible truth, lost to the Church from the first century, had been restored!Remember that it was the mid-70's when he destroyed the last contact he had with his children when he turned his back on Garner Ted and his daughters and all of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Nothing like "consecrating" his children to God by being a good father! Yes, he was a shining example!
Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy” (1 Corinthians 7:14). Paul was very clear here. Children of converted parents (or one parent) are holy! The Greek word for holy is hagios. Strong’s Concordance translates this word as sacred or consecrated. Something that is sacred or consecrated is set apart for holy use! God sees our children as sacred. Do we? All parents in God’s Church must ensure that our children remain sacred to God. God-inspired child rearing can ensure this.Dennis Leap claims that through presents teaching them about Jesus while in the PCG (COG) the child will be consecrated. That is a stretch right there since the PCG and most of the Churches of God have totally ignored Jesus over emphasizing on the law. Jesus is only trotted out once a year at Passover where he is beaten to a bloody pulp and left on the Masonic Lodge or Odd Fellow's floor until next year.
Imagine being a child in the PCG and being taught about a kingdom to come where Flurry, Leap and others will be in charge! What a nightmare that would be! Even Jesus weeps at that thought!
Leap likes to believe that is the parent's fault that so many children left the church in the 1980's. Never place any blame on the asinine teachings of the ministry or rapidly apostatizing ministers who set out to start splinter personality cults. Nope, they were never the problem. It was the parent's fault.
In the early ’80s, many young people who were raised in the Church, did not grow up to become members of God’s Church. Mr. Armstrong was greatly disturbed by this trend. He placed the blame where it belonged—on the parents. He wrote, “Brethren, God’s Church is not showing even half the growth it should have from the oncoming generation of our members. This shows we have neglected the teaching of our children! When God has calledGod was apparently too stupid to use any of Jesus teachings about children so there is the constant need in the Church of God to rely upon Moses and other "heroes" of the Old Covenant. Jesus is still on the Masonic Lodge floor, so let's look to the law and Moses for guidance. for special service in loyally backing the proclaiming of the gospel to the world by God’s Church, He intended that your childrenshould also be called and enter into the Work of God’s Church” (ibid). Besides teaching our children about God, we must also teach them about His Work and show them how to back and support the Work. If our hearts are truly in the Work, this will not be difficult to accomplish.
God established through the Prophet Moses that it is the responsibility of the older generation to properly instruct its youth. “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up” (Deuteronomy 6:5-7). The success of ancient Israel was tied directly to the quality of the instruction given to succeeding generations. The quality of teaching depends upon the spiritual maturity of the adult generation. Because of the continuing degeneration of the adults, eventually the teaching broke down. Ancient Israel became a miserable failure. The lesson is there for any parents willing to look (1 Corinthians 10:11).The Church of God and this includes the PCG, RCG, UCG, LCG, COGWA, and most of the others have been an epic failure in how it has raised its children. If Leap really wants to be truthful, he should admit that PCG and the COG have been a "miserable failure."
Yet there is still marvelous hope. Mr. Armstrong wrote, “Although Satan is going to influence your children, almost from birth, toward his selfish and rebellious attitude, you may counteract this by ! And when sufficiently adult . None of this is true of children outside truly converted parents!” (ibid). We should be as positive as Mr. Armstrong. Let’s never forget that we have the power of the Almighty God behind us and our children!
Mr. Flurry continues, “Children of converted members in God’s Church, even if not baptized when Jesus Christ returns, I believe will still be a part of that firstfruits group because they were sanctified before Christ’s return. Our children have such a wonderful future!” (ibid). Do we see the opportunity that Christ gives us to help Him prepare His own Bride? Do we really see what God has planned for our little children? Those who grow up to believe, repent and become converted in the Millennium will eventually receive the Bride-level reward promised only to the firstfruits. What a future! This is for us and for our children.
Let’s not fail to recognize that our children’s place in that future depends mostly on us. Surely we want to give our children the best future ever!The best chance any child in the Philadelphia Church of God has, as do most of them from the other Churches of God, is that they LEAVE! Their future depends upon it!
Our Sacred Children: How well do you understand what God has given His Church
concerning child rearing?
The Church of God prophet of Arroyo Grande had a rude shock recently when he discovered that Elijah ended up having mental problems. Modern COG prophets can't have that! Therefore, Almost arrested but not arrested, the former Elijah, Amos, Joshua, and doubly blessed Bob Thiel is now the end time doubly-blessed Elisha! The fun part is that 99% of the people in the COG's and the entire world think he is the one with mental issues and refuses to follow him.
Getting back to the original Elijah, when he was the top ecclesiastical authority, Elijah did a variety of miracles, such as stopping rain (1 Kings 17:1), multiplying flour and oil (1 Kings 17:13-16), getting a dry passage over a river, (2 Kings 2:7-8), and calling fire down from heaven (2 Kings 1:10-12).
Elijah, however, over time seem to have lost the mental/emotional ability to properly lead (cf. 1 Kings 19:13-18). God later took him and replaced him with Elisha as the top ecclesiastical authority. Elisha then received a “double-portion” (two-portion literally) of the gift that God had given Elijah:
9 And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask! What may I do for you, before I am taken away from you?”So what can you imagine that Elisha and Bob Thiel have in common? Notice vs. 9 above. Elisha was "doubly blessed." This doubly blessed nonsense that Thiel trots out to legitimize himself in the eyes of gullible people is just that, pure unadulterated nonsense. In other words, it is an outright lie. Galyon Bonjour had no intention of blessing Thiel in order for him to start a new personality cult. But this has never stopped Elisha Thiel from making such a crazy claim.
Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.”
10 So he said, “You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be so.” 11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, “My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!” So he saw him no more. And he took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces. 13 He also took up the mantle of Elijah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood by the bank of the Jordan. (2 Kings 2:9-13)
The recipient of the double-portion, Elisha, was a type of Elijah. Elisha picked up the mantle of Elijah (2 Kings 2:13) which God wanted him to have (1 Kings 19:16-19), did a similar miraculous dry river crossing (2 Kings 2:13-14), also did other miracles (2 Kings 4:30-35; 2 Kings 10:5-14; 2 Kings 6:16-18), as he replaced Elijah as God’s top ecclesiastical authority on earth (cf. 1 Kings 19:16).Not only does Thiel claim to be an Elisha, but he also has characteristics of Elijah running through his veins. Of course, absolutely none of this is from God, but it is entirely from himself. All made up in that warped brain of his. God has not spoken to Thiel any more than he has to Gerald Flurry or Dave Pack.
A minister of the Living Church of God prayed and anointed Bob Thiel for a ‘double portion’ of God’s Spirit back in late 2011 and told him that was reminiscent of what happened to Elisha.
Thiel's thinking is so twisted and perverted that he believes he was foretold in scripture as rising up in the end times and taking on the Elijah/Elisha role.
Jesus, Himself, confirmed that John the Baptist, who in not recorded to have done any of the miracles of Elijah, fulfilled an Elijah role:
12 But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:12-13)
So, the Bible tells of two Elijahs who were here thousands of years ago.
But Jesus told of another Elijah to come after He left:
11 Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. (Matthew 17:11)
That particular Elijah was also prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures (the Old Testament). Here are Protestant, “literal,” and Catholic (note: Catholics often use the Latinized form of Elijah, called Elias below) translations:
4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the statutes and rules that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel. 5 “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 6 And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.” (Malachi 4:4-6, ESV)
4 Remember ye the law of Moses My servant, That I did command him in Horeb, For all Israel — statutes and judgments. 5 Lo, I am sending to you Elijah the prophet, Before the coming of the day of Jehovah, The great and the fearful. 6 And he hath turned back the heart of fathers to sons, And the heart of sons to their fathers, Before I come and have utterly smitten the land! (Malachi 4:4-6, YLT)
4 Remember the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, the precepts, and judgments. 5 Behold I will send you Elias the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers: lest I come, and strike the earth with anathema. (Malachi 4:4-6, Douay-Rheims).
Then to further establish himself as the true Elijah/Elisha in the eyes of his African members, he claims that Herbert Armstrong thought there might be another Elijah to come. One guess as to who that person is, even though Flurry, Pack, Weinland, Meredith, Hulme, and many others all claim they are that end time leader.Notice that the various translations teach that Elijah is to be on the scene before the Day of the Lord. An event that is at least over six years from now.
How much do you want to bet that in 2024, when absolutely none of Thiel's predictions have become true that he will say God is delaying things. He will never admit he was wrong or even that he had lied. His god will tell him that the time frame has changed, or that the Mayan calendar was wrong or Fatima made the wrong prophecy. Accountability is not something COG leaders are known for.
The Church of God position has been that someone would come in the spirit and power of Elijah to “restore all things” and possibly be one of the two witnesses. While the late Herbert W. Armstrong (died in January 1986) sometimes indicated that he fulfilled that role, he told people that I have personally spoken with that there could be another other than he. Those with a WCG background might find the following quote from Herbert W. Armstrong of some assistance here as he wrote:
Those called into the Church were called not merely for salvation and eternal life, but to learn the way of God’s government and develop the divine character during this mortal life in the Church age…Also Malachi 4:5-6 pictures the Elijah to come at the very end of the Church age (Mystery of the Ages. 1985, pp. 201, 349).And when was the “Church age” supposed to end according to Herbert Armstrong’s old church:
God has set before us an open door and no MAN can shut it. God can shut it, and He will when the work is finished and the Philadelphia Church goes to a place of safety. …The Laodicean Church is not going to he worthy to escape to a place of safety. When it is too late, they will find that the Church of Philadelphia has gone to safety (What Is the “LAODICEAN CHURCH”? Good News August 1959 Vol. VIII, Number 8).
Now since the Church age has not ended, and the Day of the Lord has not yet come, then it follows that Elijah was to come on the scene publicly after this was written. His restoring of “all things” means that he is to be restoring information that the true Church of God once understood, but later must have lost or misunderstood.Then the arrogant narcissist continues with a broad swipe at Dave Pack and all other COG leaders and groups out there that they are all wrong. Salvation cannot happen outside the boundaries of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. There is no other Church of God on the face of the earth today that has the "sure word of prophecy" that the improperly named "continuing" Church of God does. those who do not heed the call of Elisha Thiel are going to have a tough time in the tribulation.
Now, I should add that RCG’s David Pack is NOT the prophesied end time Elijah despite his claims earlier this year–he has NOT restored the truth and is confused/wrong on many points.Elisha Thiel does not have the "sure word of prophecy" any more than Herbert Armstrong did, or Gerald Waterhouse, or Dave Pack, or Ron Weinland, or Gerald Flurry. Every single one of them has been documented to be liars.
Those of the true and genuine Philadelphian remnant will pay much attention to the voice of the true final Elijah. Those who do not will not fare as well as they could (cf. Revelation 12:14-17).
We in the Continuing Church of God “have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts” (2 Peter 1:19, KJV).”
Why is it that every self-appointed leader in the Church of God has or has had serious mental health issues? Even worse, is that their members do not have the discernment to see how sick these men are. How many will have to die before people wake up?
Things may be finally looking up for Living Church of God! It seems that there is a disproportionate number of LCG members who have no interest in watching Richard Ames and others on LCG's telecast, nor do many in LCG care to read its literature! Seriously, who can blame them! All of their telecasts, magazine articles and literature are nothing more than a rehash of decades-old articles and programs. Do any of these men in any of the Churches of God have an original thought in their heads? It is 2018 and most of the COG's still live in the 1950-1960's mode of church literature and beliefs. Just how many articles do LCG members need to read about sex? How many do they need to read about the law? Maybe, just maybe, they would like to read about Jesus, or grace, or mercy - all topics sorely ignored in LCG.
Even more interesting in Weston's comments is that LCG members know more about literature in other COG's than they do their own! So delightful!
Gerald Weston writes in the latest letter to the members:
Why You Need to Read This
Gerald E. Weston
Mr. Richard Ames is famous for asking congregations for a show of hands of how many watched the latest telecast or read the latest magazine. After scanning the audience, he then announces the percentage of the crowd who raised their hands, using an impressive degree of precision, such as 38.4 percent. This usually brings a chuckle from those present, as a guess like this can never be so exact, but, sadly, the figure is often less than what we might hope it would be.
While I rarely ask for a show of hands at services, it is evident to me from conversations before and after services that this is indeed the situation. Many members do not watch the telecast and many do not read our literature. This is a curious phenomenon, as we find that some of these same members are well-versed in the literature of others. And it is evident that the problem is not lack of time, as people today spend loads of time on Facebook, snapchat, twitter, e-mail and/or television.Gerald Weston, who says he himself is boring, admits that LCG literature may also be boring!
One must wonder why this is the case. Perhaps our writings are not compelling enough for members to read them or our Tomorrow’s World telecasts fail to compete favorably with other options. If that is the case, we sincerely apologize. And please do not think this is a veiled request for compliments, encouraging faithful members to write supportive and encouraging letters. It is not. We know that there is great support and many prayers offered up to God for the telecast, our literature, and for us personally. Instead, this is an attempt to encourage all members to prioritize their lives so that they know the direction God is leading us. After all, either God is working through His servants or He is not!Well Gerald, perhaps this is a clue that He is not! Ever thought of that? How can members be expected to prioritize their lives to know where God is leading when the LCG itself does not know? The 1950's and 1960's, the glory days of the Worldwide Church of God are over! They are long gone and will NEVER be recaptured by any COG in this day and age. Rudderless Churches of God who ignore Jesus and prostrate themselves at the feet of the law will never have any future.
Weston goes on in his missive to discuss how Paul and others wrote letters that ended up being so important that they were included in the canon of the Bible. Apparently, Weston thinks LCG literature may soon fit that standard! Imagine 1,000 years from now people sitting down to read letters from LCG writers that have been canonized into scripture! What an absolutely APPALLING thought! There is no need to worry though, that will never happen. If these men truly believe in the Jesus they claim to know and in the kingdom, they hope for, they would know that the literature and maybe even the Bible itself might be of little importance. Why would it be if the living and breathing Jesus is present? Who needs the book or booklets or letters?
Regardless, the point is that churches, and individual Christians, had letters written to them, and only later did the Church realize their enduring importance. We know the apostles and others wrote books and letters not preserved as part of the Holy Scripture (cf. 1 Corinthians 5:9; 3 John 9; Jude 14). How could an early Christian discern what would become part of a lasting record, and what would not? Does this mean that other letters, written by these men, were somehow in error? Were they not important at the time? Should we take communications from the Church lightly? Or neglect them?Did you know that if you don't read LCG literature, watch a telecast, or miss a church service occasionally that you are drifting away and your salvation is at stake? So the next time you have to sit through a mind-numbing video sermon from HQ remember that your salvation bonus point card will start filling up and you won't drift away or start reading dissident blogs and willfully start sinning with wild abandon!
We often refer to Hebrews 10:25, where Paul admonishes us not to forsake assembling together, as some were doing even back then, especially as we see the return of Christ approaching. Do we know why? Part of the reason is found in the preceding verse: “And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works” (v. 24). This is one reason we attend services, even if the sermon is not “live.” Verses 23 and 26 give further context. There is a danger of drifting away from our baptismal confession. We must remain faithful over the long haul, for it is possible to drift away and sin willfully, thus losing everything!Weston knows that most LCG members won't read his letter, so he decided to pull a little stunt with the few who will read his admonition. He says at the beginning of the article:
Dear Brethren, Some of you are familiar with Country magazine, where they hide an image of a needle somewhere in the pages of each issue for readers to find. Sometimes it is easy to spot, other times not. So let me get this off my chest up front: Like that hidden needle, there is a hidden flaw in this letter to you. I will reveal the flaw at the end, but my guess is that discerning readers will figure it out.and ends with this:
I mentioned at the start of this letter that there is a flaw in it. Do you see it? It is, very simply, the fact that those who need this advice the most may never actually read it!
A comment the other day:
I stumbled on your site today, and most of the articles and posts seem rather old. and most everything posted is very negative ripping church members and leaders for their sins and it reminds me of a Scripture where Jesus slapped several self righteous people where it hurts. The Scripture???? John 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first."
Even an Archangel wouldn't do what some of these people have done...Jude 19 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" another Scripture tells us... Luke 6:37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Tread lightly folks, I want mercy not what I deserve and you should too! But, He who is without sin among you keep judging!
Regards, Sanford Sorrow