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Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!

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    For the last 4-5 years California has suffered though a major drought.  Not that is new for CA, since almost the entire state is arid in climate, much like the Mediterranean.  For several years now various Church of God lying false prophets have taken great delight in the state experiencing drought.  In their distorted and vengeful eyes this is/was prophecy coming alive.  Rod Meredith, Bob Thiel, James Malm and others get so wrapped up in this doom and gloom that they almost go into orgasmic frenzies over "end time " events, and the drought was a sure sign that they have been proven "right."

    As of right now due to all of the rain and the massive amounts of snow in the Sierra's, the state released information that the snow pack to 200% above normal.  Massive rains have hit a large percentage of the state and more is on the way.

    Never once do you hear or read of a Church of God leader saying that they are praying for rain and when it does come do they ever claim that their prayer helped the rain come.  God usually is accused of delaying his punishment because the church was not yet ready, thus the state or country has received a small reprieve.

    That is until now, though that rain fell on the other side of the world.

    Almost-arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Joshua, Amos, Habakkuk, Second Witness, dreamer of dreams, doubly-blessed, self-perceived Mayan authority, naturopath, the bitter "son" Rod Meredith had aways wished for, prophet, apostle, and Chief Overseer  is now claiming one of his prayers caused rain to fall in Africa.  Toto, where are you when we need you?!

    Elijah Habakkuk Thiel writes:
    The first is that I had not received Aleksandar ‘Sasha’ Veljic’s report until last night and it had more information than the initial report (it reported that it rained more than it appeared from Pastor Ochieng’s briefer report).I prayed Monday that there would be more rain in Kenya and it seems like that has happened.
    The greatest miracle for which I prayed in this country is – rain. I began to cry and pray to God for that miracle because there was nothing I could do about it, nor there is anyone who could have done anything about it. I asked God to intervene for our members have not been able to grow crops, many remained without seeds and some were facing starvation to death. So I began to pray for rain. And the first word that was on my mouth ever since I arrived in Kenya, the word that I so often mentioned was only one word – rain. On the Sabbath, I prayed with the small local congregation in Kitangala, nearby Nairobi, for the rain. On Sunday, as we were asking blessing for a meal, I mentioned rain. Ten minutes afterwards there came rain over the city we were staying in – Narok. In the following days it was raining everywhere. Even tonight, here where we are staying (Kissi town) we had a downpour of rain. Exactly what I asked God, everything happened when it comes to rain. I have tens of witnesses that it is true.”

    The doubly-blessed prophet had announced earlier that one of his acolytes in Africa had prayed for rain and it fell almost immediately.  Now, the self appointed prophet has to get his own accolades in, Habakkuk Thiel claims that his prayer brought even more rain than was originally reported. His rain was even bigger than his acolyte.

    The false prophet is bitter that no one believes his distortions!  Shame on all of you.  How could you NOT believe apostle Thiel?  He has told the 100% truth!
    An apostate, former WCG minister (Dennis Diehl), posted this in response to me post Rain Miracle in Kenya?:
    Weather is just weather and as sincere as one might be, humans don’t pray down rain unless it is going to rain anyway. 
    Those who actually believe the Bible have a different view. Apostates do not truly believe the Bible. 
    99.99% of Church of God members do not believe false prophet and teacher Bob Thiel either, and they claim to truly believe the Bible.  They do not believe because they have witnessed hundreds of lairs and false prophets claim over the decades that they could perform miracles.  Every single one of them have been liars. There is no COG prophet, church leader, apostle or Chief Overseer alive today that has performed any such miracle.






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    If you have even the slightest connection with most of the hundreds of splinter groups of the Church of God you will see that they all share one predominate theme.  Government. Government from the top down, not from ANYPLACE that comes through the membership.  No regular church member has the understanding, the training or the blessing from God on high as do the ministry of the church.  This does not even include the fools that have self-appointed themselves.  This is still coming from ministers that have been part of the "good old boys club" for the last 50-60 some years.

    The Eternal Church of God is reinforcing the understanding that all spiritual knowledge comes from and through their ministers.
    The task of feeding Christ’s lambs and feeding and tending His sheep, is primarily accomplished through the ministers’ inspired speaking and teaching of God’s Word, and through ministerial counseling. In this regard, the ministry is to look after and protect Christ’s disciples by “feeding” and “tending” the flock”—which includes, standing up to savage wolves which might come in with the attempt to spiritually destroy and devour the sheep (Acts 20:29; compare also John 10:11-13).
    There are several problems within this paragraph. For the vast majority of the ministry "inspired" speaking is NOT a quality that most COG ministers possess.  Most of them do not have an original thought in their heads.  They parrot and plagiarize messages from predecessors over the last 80 some years. There is no deviation from the rote understandings.  Note the definition for rote:
    • ROTE 
    • A memorizing process using routine or repetition, often without full attention or comprehension: learn by rote. 
    • n. Mechanical routine.
    Almost all COG ministers ignore the teachings of Christ and the New Covenant.  They've protected themselves to the law and the law only.  And as for counseling...we all know that NONE of them have ever had adequate training in psychology, therapy or counseling.  None have taken classes or obtained licenses in counseling.  Church member literally have died from these morally and spiritually bankrupt counselings.

    Norbert Link believes Church of God members cannot understand scripture or spiritual things WITHOUT a Church of God minister telling you what to believe.  
    Brethren need Christ’s ministers to be fed. Romans 10:14-16 tells us that we cannot hear “without a preacher.” We are also told, however, that God must send the “preacher.” We are encouraged to “test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets [or preachers] have gone into the world” (1 John 4:1).
    The Church of God is filled with lying false prophets.  From Bob Thiel to James Malm, Norbert Link, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Rod Meredith...the list is endless. Theses people have thrown sincere members searching for God to the wolves as they've ripped member lives apart. they've spiritually destroyed their flocks.
    In the first part of this series, we warned against deception which is prophesied to occur—including in the Church of God. Feeding the flock includes a warning against deception, lying spirits and the falling away from the Truth. In part 2, we continued to address the importance of not deviating from the Truth. To ensure that this doesn’t happen, the ministry of God’s Church has the duty to feed the flock by preaching the Truth in season and out of season (2 Timothy 4:1-2).
    Sadly the Church of God has been filed with lying spirits.  Just took at the recent liars who have set themselves up as God's chosen.  Dave Pack, Bob Thiel, James Malm, Gerald Flurry, just to name a few of the more egregious offenders.

    One of the ways that Norbert Link's group brings the light to the world is dealing with teaching prophecy.
    We also stated in part 4 that a warning message must go out to members and prospective members of the Church of God, including a message about prophecy which should help us to see more clearly how close we are to Christ’s return.
    Not once in the entire history of this dispensation of the church has any COG leader EVER said anything accurate about Christ's return or about any other aspect of prophecy.  Every single one of them have uttered one false prophecy after another.  Lies upon lies.  According to scripture all it takes is one lie for a minister to never be believed again.

    Link and his buddies lay down further laws for their small flock:
    only ordained ministers of God should perform baptisms.
    only God’s ministers were given special authority from God to lay their hands upon the sick, when praying for them (while anointing them with oil).
    only ECG ministers can perform legitimate marriages
    All of these ordinances require the laying on of hands that Link believes is required. In his eyes this is "feeding" the flock. Link believes that the true ministry can trace there linage back through the ordination of Herbert Armstrong. Any ministers ordained by anyone outside of that lineage is a fraud. 
    The doctrine of laying on of hands requires and demands a functioning godly ministry, who are God’s representatives (Malachi 2:7), if they are truly chosen and ordained by God (Hebrews 5:4). God has decreed that an ordained minister of God is necessary for proper baptism (leading to the receipt of the Holy Spirit); healing; Church weddings; the blessing of little children; and ordinations as deacons and elders. All of this serves the purpose of feeding the flock.
    As usual in the Church of God, fear and threats need to be dumped upon the brethren.  If any member dares to question or reject  ministers advice then their lives are in spiritual danger.  If you do not submit you re guilty of rebellion!  Rebellious CO Members could go and start practicing witchcraft or Wicca.
    Someone who rejects God’s ministers, thinking that he has no need of them, is in mortal spiritual danger. Someone who is unwilling to submit to the ministry of God is guilty of rebellion, which is as bad as sorcery and witchcraft (1 Samuel 15:23)....As it is the duty and responsibility of God’s ministers to feed the flock and protect it from harm, the “sheep” and the “lambs” are told by God to accept and obey the guidance and protection from God’s true ministers (Hebrews 13:17; 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15). 
    OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!  Only COG ministers can give you really guidance and protection. 

    From:   
    How Does the Church of the Eternal God and its International Affiliates Differ From Other Christian Churches? (Part 5)
     
     

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    ‘The Widow’s Might’ to premiere Dec. 29 at OC
    Herbert W. Armstrong College announces its fourth musical theater production, ‘The Widow’s Might —The Story of Naomi, Ruth and Boaz.’ The production will make its debut at Armstrong Auditorium in three performances; at 7:30 p.m. on Thursday, Dec. 29, at 7:30 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 31, and at 2 p.m. Sunday, Jan. 1.
    In this new musical by Armstrong College music director Ryan Malone, one of the most renowned love stories of all time comes to life from the book of Ruth. Follow Naomi and Ruth — two impoverished widows — on their journey as they discover loyalty and love, rescue and redemption. With a lyrical and heart-rending new score, breathtaking step-dancing choreography and brilliantly colored costumes, a 100-strong cast brings this adventure to life in dramatic detail.
    Great-grandparents to King David of the Bible, Boaz and Ruth remain the most distinguished royal family of the Old Testament. The hope-filled story comes to vivid life in this new musical – performed by staff and students of Herbert W. Armstrong College teaming up with its sister school Imperial Academy and its internationally acclaimed Irish dancers…”

    From a PCG source:


    It has been a little over a month now and it is apparent that this musical was a very big flop with the local Edmond Population. Some say it is the disturbing rumors of child/spouse abuse that has leaked out of the Flurry Cult Compound. Others attribute the embarrassing crash and burn to the prosaic and bland overall presentation of this pretentious musical dud. Think of "High School Musical" performed by the Amish.
    When the Cult Musical Virtuoso Ryan Malone has his great  Magnum Opus staged by untalented, average looking, average gifted wives of ministers, kids of ministers, Flurry family brown nosers, and other Cult lackeys - what do you expect. This ain't going to be like "Hamilton" folks.
    Gerald Flurry bankrolled and underwrote this latest attempt by the PCG to look professional and legitimate to the surrounded Edmond OK populace. With the PCG subsidizing the admission cost all tickets were $10 for adults and even less for children. However this generous cut rate entrance fee failed miserably to jump start this Musical Abomination into the hearts and minds of the public. The most devoted ticket purchasers were..you guessed it....local and out of town PCG members. Those PCG zombies just can't get enough of the Riverdancing Flurry Grand children. 


    The privileged elite of the PCG families on stage.

    Part of the reason these musicals are turning into epic failures is the use of Paula Malone and other local elite wives of church employees in lead roles.  Local PCG members have complained about being subjected to the screeching of Paula Malone during Sabbath services and recitals. 


    This is a perfect picture of a PCG marriage.  

    A sanctimonious self-righteous husband with is back turned to a dejected downtrodden wife and the concubine in the middle.  Those boys on the compound sure know how to have fun!

    Church members keep wondering when Malone will set the Sodom and Gomorrah story to music.  Imagine how much fun that will be watching Paula Malone turn to a pillar of salt as she is screeching singing! Something tells me that they won't have too much trouble gathering a large cast of scantly clad men to be pounding at the door of Lot's house in the musical. "Cast them out so that we might know them!" Oh my...

    The Armstrong Auditorium seats 823 people.  Notice how may attended opening night:
    EDMOND—Four-hundred twenty-eight concert-goers watched the premiere of The Widow’s Mighton December 29 at Armstrong Auditorium. The musical, produced by the Philadelphia Church of God and Herbert W. Armstrong College, was also viewed by members around the world watched via a live-stream at live.pcog.org.  
    Since the project began in February, more than 100 cast and crew have spent thousands of man hours on props, sets, lighting, costumes, choreography, diction, blocking, staging and recording.  PCG article
    It is pretty pathetic that you can't even con church members, employees and students to fill up the building, let alone the public!

    Hundreds of thousands of dollars in tithe money have been wasted on these amateur productions, all to please the elite of the Philadelphia Church of God so that the Flurry grand kids can Irish dance.  I bet PCG members never thought they would be financing buildings for the exclusive use of Flurry's grand kids so they can  dance jigs.  Irish dance is a major way of spreading the gospel brethren!  Jesus danced a jig right before he fed the 5,000!




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    It was not long after United Church of God minister Stephen Allwine was arrested for killing his wife that his parents jumped up and posted his $500,000 bail.

    Some people who knew Allwine thought this was not a good idea for him to be out on bail.  He has/had the resources to possibly flee or do other illegal activities.

    His moment of freedom out on bail did not last too long because he did just that!  He is now back in jail for attempting to track down his son with a Smartwatch.

    The Star Tribune is reporting:
    Cottage Grove murder-for-hire suspect back in jail after allegedly trying to track son via smartwatch
    Allwine had been released from jail after posting a conditional $500,000 bail on the second-degree murder charges. But police arrested him Monday, said Fred Fink, criminal division chief in the county attorney’s office, after authorities found he had tried to get in touch with his son. Allwine had been told to have no unsupervised visits with the boy.
    The judge wisely raised both bail amounts even higher after this second arrest.
    Allwine appeared Wednesday in front of Judge Mary Hannon. She raised unconditional bail to $1.5 million — originally $1 million — and conditional bail to $600,000. The judge ordered Allwine to have no contact with his son or Amy Allwine’s parents.
    The victim’s parents, who now have custody of the boy, notified law enforcement that Stephen Allwine had contacted them and asked that they “charge up the GizmoGadget smartwatch and program his phone number in there as well,” Fink said. 
    Can you imagine the hell Amy's parents are going through having to deal with the death of their daughter, take care of her son and then to have Allwine contact them?  They promptly reported him to the police.
    Allwine appeared Wednesday in front of Judge Mary Hannon. She raised unconditional bail to $1.5 million — originally $1 million — and conditional bail to $600,000. The judge ordered Allwine to have no contact with his son or Amy Allwine’s parents.
    The victim’s parents, who now have custody of the boy, notified law enforcement that Stephen Allwine had contacted them and asked that they “charge up the GizmoGadget smartwatch and program his phone number in there as well,” Fink said.
    Fink argued in court that Allwine’s attempted contact of his son was especially worrisome because of Allwine’s skills with digital technology and the nature of the case against him. 
    This court trial is going to end up being a huge mess.  Allwine will work the system to his benefit.  He is already claiming that a disgruntled dog owner was angry with his wife and killed her.

    For some reason United Church of God has had bigger percentage of these sick ministers than any other COG.


    ht: Connie

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    More sick news concerning the Philadelphia Church of God and is abominable treatment of members.

    Exit and Support has this up about a Philippines family:

    February 6, 2017 
    This is just another sad story among the many on your page. Here is one tragedy. 
    For a background, the couple are Mr. and Mrs. Melchizedek Tupas. They were last seen at the Feast of Tabernacles in 2013. 
    The couple received the wrath of the former Regional Director of the PCG, John Macdonald due to a trivial incident that happened during the Feast. During one of the services, Mel Tupas forgot to turn-off his mobile phone and, unexpectedly, it sounded an alarm which caught the attention of John Macdonald. That made the man who is well known for his temper and harshness to give the couple the equivalent of capital punishment immediately. They were suspended and not allowed to attend services anymore after that Feast. As called for by the PCG's unreasonable and much abused NO CONTACT POLICY, all the children of the couple who are in the PCG were automatically prevented from having any contact with their parents. They were to be treated like they don't exist anymore or like they are dead already. Consequently, the Tupas couple were abandoned, neglected and forsaken by their children to prove their loyalty and faithfulness to their ministers. 
    The Tupas family are not really from Angeles city. They are from Rizal, Palawan, Philippines and they used to have a good life there. All their children were born and raised as well as educated in Palawan. Then things took a wild turn when John Macdonald started to pursue a dream of turning Angeles City into a little Edmond, Oklahoma. 
    We still do not know the fate of this couple as they have not been able to contact any friends and family. 
    I wish to remain anonymous. Maybe someone reading your site could help us. --Anonymous

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    I was doing a search on Yisrayl Hawkins and the House Yahweh today and discovered this little tidbtit that I had never seen before.  The article in on one of the Church of God's favorite ultraconservative "news" sites...World Net Daily. Bob Thiel and Flurry quote from WND frequently assuming it is a legitimate news source.

    NEW YORK – President Obama’s half-brother from Kenya, Abongo Malik Obama, will return Friday to the U.S., not to visit the White House as he has done before, but to begin a partnership with a cult leader in Texas who has been compared to David Koresh and Jim Jones.
    Malik will be in Abilene, Texas, to attend the Peaceful Solution Character Education Convention hosted by known polygamist Yisrayl Hawkins, head of a group called the House of Yahweh, reports Arabic-speaking Islam researcher Walid Shoebat.
    Hawkin's traces his ties back to the Worldwide Church of God movement under Herbert Armstrong.
    Hawkins believes he is personally mentioned in the Bible and has actually rewritten his version of the Bible to include his name and the House of Yahweh in it.  Hawkins also believes that a baby was born in 2007 that will grow up to cause a nuclear ward that will burn the entire earth in a matter of 30 minutes.  Like Bob Thiel and Dave Pack Hawkins self appointed himself as God's most important man on earth that will lead the chosen people of God into the kingdom.

    In 2008, Hawkins was prosecuted in Baird, Texas, after being charged with performing polygamous weddings and forcing children as young as 11 to work at his 44-acre compound, the the Associated Press reported at the time.
    “But this isn’t the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints’ ranch, which authorities raided last month in Eldorado after receiving reports that underage girls were being forced to marry much older men,” the AP noted.
    “This is the House of Yahweh: a different, even darker sect that the state has been investigating for years.”
    In 2009, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, the bigamy charges against Hawkins were dropped in his Callahan County court case, because a Class A misdemeanor bigamy charge had a two-year limitation and the charges dated back to 2005. There also was a resource limitation when the trial judge granted a change in venue from Callahan County to Parker County, Texas.
    Hawkins, however, pleaded “no contest” to four counts of child labor violations for which he was assessed a $2,000 fine, 100 hours of community service and 15 months probation for each count.

    Malik Obama partners with House of Yahweh
    Shoebat pointed out in a report that Malik has described Hawkins’ group as a “partner organization” in a posting titled “Impacting people everywhere for meaningful change” on his Barack H. Obama Foundation website.
    Barack H. Obama Foundation website announcement of Hawkins “Peaceful Solution Character Education Incorporated” meeting in Abilene, Texas
    press release issued this week by Peaceful Solution Character Education promoted the upcoming meeting.
    “Various speakers from around the globe, including Malik Obama, yes, the brother of President Obama, will address a variety of issues. The group says each speaker will provide answers that will solve many of the problems being faced in the home, school, workplace, and society as a whole.”
    The press release also quoted Yisrayl Hawkins, as founder of the program, saying: “We will give you answers to solve any problem you can think of. Just show up, and be ready to get your solution.”

    Read more at Obama brother works with 'Koresh-style' cult leader  




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    The Happy Couple? 
    What happens if this new wife runs afoul of Culpepper?


    In August of 2016 I posted a letter that was up on Exit and Support about how Cal Culpepper destroyed a marriage in the Philadelphia Church of God.

    How Sick Can Cal Culpepper and Gerald Flurry Get?

    Recently, I was surprised to receive a call from a good friend from my PCG days whose name is Cassie Flory. Cassie, who was baptized, was married to Scott Flory.1 I was very fond of Scott and Cassie and when I first came into the PCG I would fellowship with them often. We would have meals after services, and I even stayed at their house from time to time. Scott, as I recall, was a very devoted husband and father. I never saw him mistreat his wife and kids in any way. He worked hard to provide for his family and his wife and his kids never lacked anything. In all actuality, I envied them because at that time I was single and living alone. Cassie told me that her marriage to Scott was, for all practical purposes, dissolved by the Regional Director of the North East PCG--Cal Culpepper. She said they both were cast out ("suspended") from the PCG a few years ago under the direct orders from Cal Culpepper for certain offenses that Culpepper found unacceptable. 
    Scott apparently pined away faithfully during all the time of their suspension and was waiting for that special phone call from Culpepper that would allow them to return to the "church." Well, some time ago, he got the green light from Culpepper to return. However Scott was faced with a dilemma. The condition of his return to the PCG was that he had to turn out his wife Cassie and no longer allow her to live with him. When Scott told Cassie that he was allowed back in PCG, she said, "What about me?" He told her to leave his house ASAP. Cassie told me that she had nowhere to go!! She packed some of her belongings and lived for a while with various friends. She finally found her own place and is trying to rebuild her life, but is now living without the man she loved and was married to for over 10 years. All of this on the direct orders from the demonized Cal Culpeper.
    This couple has two children, a boy and a girl. They are both grown young people and, from what I understand, do not attend the PCG any longer. So it seems that my once good friend Scott who I always remembered as a loving husband has--at the behest of Culpepper and for the sake of saving his skin from the Tribulation--lost his wife and children. As a consequence of this new policy from Flurry, he will (in his own mind) never see his family again unless they repent under torture from the Beast power and be "martyred for the faith." Then they will all be happily united in HWA's "World Tomorrow." My question is this: What kind of poisonous spiritual Kool Aid is Gerald Flurry forcing his followers to drink that would turn a loving husband and father into something like this?
    Now there is more to the story.  Thanks to Twitter we now know what Cal Culpepper had up his sleeve.


    From a PCG source:
    UPDATE on the Scott Flory PCG Scandal:
    Scott Flory has been given a new wife by Cal Culpepper as a reward for obeying Gerald Flurry's new disfellowshipment polices.  Culpeppepr had ordered Flory to kick his first and legitimate wife out of the home as a condition for admittance back into the cult. 
    Culpepper has been extremely nasty in his treatment of PCG members who have spouses who are no longer part of the PCG cult.  Either kick them out, divorce them or loose your eternal salvation.








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    United Church of God minister Stephen Allwine has posted bail for the second time.  His family has put up the money for the bail again.

    After his rearrest the other day for attempting to contact his son, the judge set a new bail amount:

    Allwine appeared Wednesday in front of Judge Mary Hannon. She raised unconditional bail to $1.5 million — originally $1 million — and conditional bail to $600,000. The judge ordered Allwine to have no contact with his son or Amy Allwine’s parents.

    See:


    BREAKING NEWS: UCG Minister Charged With Killing Wife After Failed Attempt To Hire Hitman








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  • 02/08/17--21:09: Chief Overseer Bob Thiel

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    Poor Dave.  He just cannot get over the fact that no one wants to follow him. The heretical ministers in the splinter groups refuse to follow him just like they would refuse to follow Peter, Paul or Moses.

    He also accuses all of them of running off at the mouth because they know everything about everything.  Apparently he is talking about know-it-all Bob Thiel.  I mean who else knows more than Dave Pack?????
    “The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished…[So it’s the same day. Good for us, in 1:19, is bad for certain others, as we saw in II Thessalonians 2. They’re going to be punished on a particular day.]…[And] chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government…[Most of the men out in the splinters now follow committees. They follow democratic governments. They have rejectedGod’s government—speak evil of the idea God works through one man—Mr. Armstrong or me or Peter or Paul or Moses, or any other one man that God raises up. They say committees are the safer way to go, because look what Joe Tkach did. You all know that. But they despise government.]…Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities…[I know a lot of these men. They shoot their mouth off faster than you can say their name. They know everything. Great swelling words of vanity.]
    “Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord…[They’ll attack other human beings, but angels won’t even rail against these men. Be careful. Don’t do it. Let God take care of them. Say “The Lord rebuke you.”]
    Dave claims that these splinter group ministers were made to be captured by the angels and destroyed  during Dave's kingdom.
    “But these…[Again, think of what we read in Jude.]…as natural brute beasts…[The same group.] made…[The word “made” there is gennaō. It’s “born.” Born]…to be taken and destroyed…[They were ordained to this end. Judas was ordained to a certain end. The False Prophet and the Beast are ordained. They’re handpicked by God toward a certain end. There are such people. They were made to be captured by angels and destroyed. They]…speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
    Dave also says that COG ministers live wanton lives.  At least he got something right!
    “And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time…[They just live wanton lives. They do not change, even on the outside, never mind from the heart, brethren, as we are to do.]…Spots they are and blemishes…[It’s just reading like Jude, only it’s adding a little more.]…sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you…[These people have been around for a while. We may go through a feast season where these guys play an important role. We’ll see.] 
    COG ministers are adulterous too...and are incapable of not sinning.
    “Having eyes full of adultery…[Remember back there in Malachi, a lot of them are treacherous to their own wives.]…and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: [Look out!]…an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; [And they’re called] cursed children…[Well, remember Malachi 2:2. God is going to curse them worse; but He says they’re cursed already. There are some who are cursed already…We read, woe unto the idol shepherds, who leave. They’re going to be cursed again—worse. There’s nobody out there I know of today that is blind or crippled…eye and hand. That has not happened yet.] 
    The evil prophet, the man of sin, is to arise from the COG.  Is it Bob Thiel? James Malm?  Dave will most likely have less than three years to warm us all about these three evil men to arise from the COG.  Of course it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe that Dave could be one of the three.
    “These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest…[Same as the Jude group. The group to whom woe is coming]…to whom the mist of darkness is reserved forever. [Reads just like Jude.] For when they speak great swelling words of vanity…[That was in Jude.]…they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error…[They’re going to lure some of God’s people. I am going to warn with all my heart. Acts 20verse 32, is my guide; 28 to 32. I don’t think I’ll get three years. But, I’ve warned and warned and warned about evil men and seducers. What I’ve never done, brethren, is “connected the dots” in the splinters to an Evil Shepherd none of them are looking for—to a Man of Sin they think is a false prophet way on down the line among the seven seals.
    Dave says we will not believe him when he tells us who the Satan possessed blasphemer is.
    And yet it all happened…So when I tell them there is going to be a Satan-possessed blasphemer, who says he is God, and thousands of God’s people are going to follow him…Do you think they’re going to believe me? You make your own decision on that. You draw a conclusion. I just hope some do. But a loving God has a solution for those who don’t, right away. They will survive…You’ve now heard the verses…many will not. But for those who say, “Wow! This is all just new and amazing, but is it scriptural? I would add verse 18, right here, leaving II Peter, “But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen” (vs. 18). 
    These rebellious COG ministers were preordained to be evil.  Dave has no intention of letting these degenerate men just come waltzing back into his group without jumping through a lot of hoops.
    “For there are certain men crept in unawares…[Paul said they would enter in among you. Jude is saying it…almost the same words…just a little different.]…who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men…[Now look, there were men selected for this task as a great test for a people who would become wretched, miserable, poor, blind, naked, divided; rejecting God’s government and truth; not doing His Work, paying His tithes, and attacking the Church. They were going to have to go through a tremendous test. What are they going to do in that test? They can’t just waltz back into the Church having spent decades—a near full generation attacking and trying to destroy it…So let’s read. They were “ordained to this condemnation”…they’re going to be condemned—certain evil men.]…turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness…[The mystery of iniquity, it’s called. Those who do not keep God’s Law]…and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ” (vs. 4). We now know how they’re going to do that.
    Dave's "jesus" is really pissed...
    Let me just say it bluntly—Jesus Christ is coming back with vengeance in His heart. He also has a reward with Him. He is also establishing a Kingdom…He’s got a Kingdom with him.  
    Here a little, there a little...that record has been broken for so long in the Church of God. It is nothing more than an excuse for mistrial stupidity.


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    Dave has set some new conditions for the tens of thousands of COG members who will flock to his church during the "first dominion." These poor deceived souls will then have 1,000 years under Dave's educational sermons to get it right.  Then they will move into the Kingdom of God where they will have another 1,000 years to still try and get it right.  What an exhausting prospect!  The licking flames of the lake of fire sound pretty good compared to 1,000 years with Dave and his flock of jackbooted Hilterians.

    There is another group, by the way, in the middle. Which way do the thousands and thousands of people in the splinters go? Now when people learn the truth in the first phase of the kingdom, I’m going to tell you right now, they come into the Church. They don’t come right into the kingdom. They’re under the administrators in the kingdom; but they’re in the Church. It’s the end of the age. They learn the truth just like everybody else does. They come in and learn and grow and they’re fed like everybody else does. We have to be careful we don’t say “in the kingdom.” They’re not part of the administrators over the kingdom, who are up above them. They are in the Church qualifying or disqualifying, just like everybody else for 2,000 years.
    So let’s go back to the question. What about all of the remnant? They know the truth. They were called years ago. Do they come into the kingdom at the time of Christ coming to His Temple? Or do they come into the Church? If you have a toggle period, which is phase one of the kingdom, you also have a toggle group in the middle—which way do they go? Turn to Luke 14. This is an enormous question. Is the remnant coming back to join us in God’s government over the world, or are they coming back to the Church? They are a toggle group—do they toggle into the kingdom or into the Church? Right now, they are in neither, we all know that.
    It is going to be a messy time when all of these members come streaming back into the church.
    First, I thought back when I began learning this almost four years ago, that there was a remnant that was coming back into the Church. And I thought, boy, there are going to be problems. I used to sit with the ministers many hours trying to figure out…These people are in a wretched condition. How in the world are you going to merge them right in with us? They are overwhelming in number—they believe everything under the sun—they come from different groups—they’re warring and fighting amongst themselves—their governments are all wrong—they can’t even remember what the Church is—they’ve got the gospel wrong—they are shot full of doctrinal errors. How, in the world, are they all going to be merged in with us? 
    I’ve worked with too many people…I’ve pastored too many thousands and thousands of people to believe that just because I’m the leader of the Church—or was their local pastor—they’re all going to agree…and you have people coming back into the Church, after a generation out of it, who can’t even remember half the doctrines of God. The potential for chaos, even in a great work, is enormous—but then we saw the kingdom and this quandary continued. Wait a minute! They’re not even in the Church and God is going to wave them into the kingdom? Think about this…Think about what I’m going to tell you. Because here is point one of a long list that explains a quandary and should give you chills, unlike yesterday, because of the thrilling news I’m going to bring you. 
    These degenerate Laodiceans who will be coming back will have tattoo's, woren harlot dresses and adulterer themselves.  These sick people even voted!  Oh the horrors!!!!!!!!  Shocking, just shocking!!!!  Even worse, these fools did not help build Dave's beautiful campus and worst of all refused to have two-hour church services!!  Imagine a god that spits you out because you got sick of sitting and listening to morally and spiritually bankrupt ministers like Pack, Malm, Flurry and Thiel drone on and on for two butt-numbing hours.
    Number one: These are a people who stole God’s tithes—who rejected His government—who did not do the Work—who rejected the idea that Christ even had one church; wore makeup; didn’t work like we have in this organization…as I like to say of our wonderful staff…in the coldrainwind and mud, building this campus with inordinate numbers of hours. They not only aren’t over here helping us—they are attacking and belittling us.
    They married unbelievers as freely as their ministers would permit…and didn’t walk in truth. They walked in utter disunity. They got tattoos—wore rotten dress—adultered with the world according to James 4. They vote—they have false governments. They even rejected the idea of a two-hour service—it was too long—and they go one-and-a-half hours. And I know some of God’s people, today, might think, “Wow, these sermons go a long time.”
    Dave is also not happy that they rejected his "all things in common" teaching.  How DARE he be mocked!
    I mean, out there, they let unconverted people come to foot-wash and teenagers do the same. They celebrate vanity on Facebook. They accept all kinds of untruths from their ministers, even in the same groups—even within the same groups. They mock and reject the idea of common. They attacked us

    All of these "special knowledge" that Dave has makes his few followers think they are the chosen ones. The gods and goddess set to run the universe with all of humanity under their thumbscrews. What a joy the first dominion and the kingdom will be with these fools in charge.

    We are instructed to pray for the kingdom to come, yet in this case we need to pray that "kingdom and dominion" never ever comes!



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    Herbert Armstrong made the following comment about the greatest need church members must have.  If there is any proof that the church knows not the man they claim to follow it is this.  If you are a Christian, you heart is geared to one person and one person only, not some human man or his organization parked in Pasadena, Arroyo Grande, Edmond, Cincinnati or Wadsworth. Everyone of these places have been cesspools of degeneracy, abuse and spiritual malfeasance.
    “In my over fifty years’ intensive, rich, active experience, since God changed MY direction into HIS WAY, I have observed that the very first need of every Christian, who is to GROW and develop…spiritual character, is to have his heart completely in THE WORK OF GOD, which the living Christ has called His servants to do.”
    The focus in the all of the Church of God's has always been upon human leaders, not on that most inconvenient dude who always remains unnamed.
    “The very Work which is THE REASON God has called you NOW—before He undertakes to SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD!” 
    Dave Pack is using Herb's comments to prove to his members that the focus should always be upon HQ.  It is government, after all.
    In 1980…
    “We must sacrifice now as never before for this Work that we may FINISH the Work.”
    Another time in 74…
    “Unless we fulfill God’s SPECIAL PURPOSE for our calling now, [we’ll] never go into [the] Kingdom. THIS FACT MUST NOT BE TAKEN CARELESSLY!”
    “You are…admonished to ‘make your calling and election SURE!’”
    And that includes… 
    “…how much we have CONTRIBUTED to His Work – the PURPOSE for which He put us in His Church NOW!”
    That is a tiny smattering of what Mr. Armstrong said. Whenever I want to feel zeal, I just go read what Mr. Armstrong said. Pretty energetic fellow, but still you understand. So, Point 7: Do vast numbers really enter the kingdom of God having never done God’s Work, or not for decades? Absolutely not. It would repudiate everything Mr. Armstrong believed for all the years and decades he did the Work. 
    It is hard to imagine that we once believed that one's salvation was dependent upon how much money, labor or obedience one had to headquarters.  The lies we swallowed are appalling. Sadly, thousands of COG members still believe this malarky.  Herbert Armstrong (or Dave Pack) is your key to the kingdom.  Utter bullshit.

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    Overly dramatic Dave.  What would we do without him?  He is correct that they are all dying though.

    The splinters are awaiting someone with miraculous power. Now they, commonly, would describe that man as Elijah; but, they are set up for someone to come and do awesome miracles. They’re desperate for miracles. One reason is they have none over there. There are no healings. They’re dying; they’re dropping like flies. Most of the big splinters are practically death camps. Nobody’s healed. Nobody is delivered. You just don’t hear about it. People get over the sniffles, and they declare it a healing, they’re so desperate for miracles.


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  • 02/09/17--16:37: The Journal, Issue 191


  • The latest issue of The Journal, News of the Churches of God is out.

    This issue has an article about the Amy Allwine murder by UCG minister Stephen Allwine.
    United Church of God president Victor Kubik released a statement after police charged a UCG elder with murder in the death of the elder’s wife.
    President Kubik, who works out of the church’s headquarters in Milford, Ohio,
    expressed “profound shock and sadness” upon learning about the arrest of Stephen Allwine, 43, of Cottage Grove, Minn., on Jan. 17, 2017, on charges of second-degree
    murder of his wife, Amy Louise Zutz Allwine, two months earlier on Nov. 13, 2016. 

    There is also an excellent article by David Antion about the 1974 "rebellion."
    Another minister who was there tells about the so-called rebellion in the WCG in 1974 
    I present here the memories I have of the experiences I went through during those times.
    I am dealing here with one phase of the complex and many-faceted interactions that took place from 1972 through 1974 in the Worldwide Church of God. This represents only the dealings of my talks with the leaders of the 1974 crisis and a little of what led up to it. Here’s some background that led up to 1974. 
    At last Helen Stiles told me I could go in. I thought this was strange because Mr. Armstrong usually came out to greet anyone who had an appointment. Nevertheless I went in.
    When I opened the main door to his office, to my surprise there was Herbert Armstrong flanked by Garner Ted Armstrong and Stan Rader. Behind them were the head- quarters evangelists—Dibar Apartian, Norman Smith, Wayne Cole, David Jon Hill, Ronald Dart, Roderick Meredith (as I remember)—and Robert Kuhn.
    (Robert was trying hard to keep a lid on the explosion that was about to happen. He was understanding and sympathetic because he knew the need for changes in doctrine. Later he was the primary force in changing many of the church’s teachings on healing and D&R. To this day Robert and I are still close friends.)
    I felt alone, like I was standing before the Sanhedrin. 
    There are also the usual advertisements by several of the extreme COG splinter groups with each one proclaiming they alone have the truth.

    Don Billingsley is back with his off the wall comments and predictions...all of which have been failures.  This time he is predicting that because of Donald Trump being elected President this will allow the building of the end time temple in Jerusalem.
    The Third TempleAnother major reason for his presidency will be to make possible the building of the third Temple in Jerusalem (more about this in a future article in our magazine). This will lead to the count- down of Jesus Christ’s coming back to this earth (Daniel 12:11-12). 

    You can red the latest issue here.

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    It really must be amazing to be God's right hand man on this earth and know everything about everything.  No man on this earth (other than Bob Thiel) is able to understand the mind of God like Dave Pack.  Dave just cannot face the fact that he and his group may actually be the ones being "snookered."
    God would never tell the splinter brethren “Well done, you good and faithful servant.” If He did, He is lying to them, or He has lied to us about what it means to be a good and faithful servant. If He’s telling them that what they did is good and faithful, then we got snookered. If He told us the truth, He could never tell them the same thing—the difference is too vast. No, they are not Catholic, but I think you understand the point. The potential—that I could dwell on—just on what we get to do, is not the subject here, but the chasm is……

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    News Flash!  Jesus is coming to Wadsworth! First he came for the Mormons and now for the Packites! The second coming will happen at the most beautiful campus ever in the history of the world!

    It is hard to believe that since the foundation of the world was laid, Wadsworth was included in the plan of salvation!

    Now, think about Joshua, who is Elijah. Think about this for a moment. That man, unique above all others, would have to know his role years and years in advance. I learned this seven years ago in the summer of 2009, if you didn’t know that. He would have to know his role for years, and be tested by Christ to know—to know—that he was going to walk in His ways and keep His charge. Would he faithfully do the broadcasts? Would he teach the truth? Would he shepherd the Church as much as the leader can? There are many other faithful ministers. But would he pass the test? So that when the time came, his salvation is settled.
    Try to imagine the other way through. Now, Christ starts through…and let’s say they run parallel…Instead of, I have to prove myself before the time where Christ comes to this campus and I have access to Him, try to imagine it parallel. We sort of start inching forward and Christ says, all right…Now wait a minute. Here we go. Let’s see…I’m going to let him judge My house for a while…Ooo, ooo, okay, but I’ve got to watch. Is he still obeying me? Wait a minute now. Okay, he’s keeping My courts, and I’m letting him come in and talk to Me personally. I’ve picked him as Elijah, but I hope he doesn’t mess up. Is he walking in My ways? Is he keeping My…oh, oh, oh…No, that’s ridiculous. That’s ridiculous! I have to prove like every other human being that I will be faithful to my calling, and then I learn about certain things I do as an administrator just like you do.

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    And the Restored Church of God 
    members will be there to restore it...

    Dave and his crew are going to be busy, whether you like it or not!

    So, you’re probably thinking, in the kingdom of God…And this is where you’ve got to get this out of your head. We all used to think and talk and meditate on this…you enter the kingdom of God, you’re an administrator…Not just the ministers are or the deacons and the elders are—they are under youYou administer. You are up above cities. So, there are hundreds and hundreds of people today…Now, I’ll come back to that in a moment. Then there are great numbers coming out of the ground to help us—and the entire number drastically increases…
    Now, does God want women in the very first phase of the kingdom?..Just like the men, once you have received salvation, you are administrators, ladies—one way or the other—it won’t make a “lick of difference,” as they say, whether you’re a man or woman. The numbers explode.
    ……I’m trying to paint a picture here. Get out of your head that we’re coming to a time when just the ministers guide everything. You are going to join the administrative governing structure of the kingdom. There will be plenty of people when the kingdom starts out so small you can barely see it on the end your finger. Remember the picture. I’m trying to create a difference in your mind.
    We’re going on to salvation. It’s different. Everything is different. You’ll have enormous authority in cities over all those who are learning about the kingdom and coming in. Later on, just—BOOM—now you’re over London. BOOM—now you’re over Johannesburg. It doesn’t make any difference whether people want it or not……


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    There is no room for mercy in Dave Pack's dominion for any evangelists in the Church God's which may want to join his movement in the future.

    I’ve wrestled with, what if evangelists come back into the Church? Do I just receive them as evangelists? I would pray about it…Father, what do I do? These are senior men. They wake up. Do they just come back, and they’re over our ministers? And the answer is absolutely not. On the surface it almost seemed insane. They were terrible. You would be rewardingendorsingunderscoring, and validating making no proof of their ministry in this time that is in the context there, II Timothy 4, of the last days—evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse. Here’s what the evangelists did: They bailed out, ran for the men’s room; but a lot of them are going to wake up, they’re going to feel horrible, and they’re going to go on to wonderful positions. And before we got here, that’s what a lot of us did.…

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  • 02/10/17--12:11: Musings...




  • As far as I can tell, those who have been able to break free from the original Worldwide Church of God and subsequently all those splits (UCG,GCI), splinters (LCG) and slivers (PCG, RCG and way down the line CCG) , are the only people who have actually grown in the graciousness and knowledge that was always emphasized that we had to grow in. You certainly don't see it in any of the leadership and congregations we tend to examine here on Banned.

    We later came to realize that the Grace and Knowledge was that according to others view of it all and not allowed to be something of our own realizations and homework.  You grow as you are told to grow and the knowledge you grow in must be approved from above.

    Mostly now the various COG Grand Masters simple are caught up in "Crowing and Over-gumming", if you get my drift.  David C. Pack is master of the crowing and over-gumming concept.

    I'd like to think that most of us here at BannedHWA are here because we care and are concerned about the spiritual, emotional and even physical well being of those still trapped by their own fear, guilt and shame abundantly stoked by their theological leaders, falsely so called.

    The bottom line seems to be that we'd like those beginning to react to the feeling in their stomachs to realize that is what is really true as to what the reasonings in one's heads might be as they are pummeled every week in church with the latest shoulds, must nots and you better realize this, messages.

    Here are a few things I believe we'd all like those questioning their involvement and place in any COG congregation, watching their own particular three ring circus unfold to realize or make real in their thinking.


    Your minister is not really a type of any Moses, Joshua, Zerubbabel or spoken of in the scriptures Old or New. That's simply crazy and delusional thinking with religious content. 

    Your minister is not one, both or supervisor of the Two Witnesses of Revelation who will work a marvelous work in your day that you won't believe.

    In time, you won't believe you fell for that.

    There can't be 300+++ Splintered One True Church

    Your minister's approach to Bible Study of "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little," is called proof texting and by it all manner of mischief can be conceived of and shows he can't  even accept the fact that Isaiah 28:9-10 , in context, promotes no such cut and paste method of drawing proper conclusions

    Narcissistic men, in positions of leadership, can well hide in a church environment because their illness looks like a weird form of obedience, dedication and sincerity.

    Organizations are full of lessor yes men and women who don't and won't protect you from what they suspect is so themselves, if they have a position and enjoy wielding fake authority.

    All of these men will grow old and die with nothing of what they predict or fashion themselves to be ever remotely comes to pass

    Properties purchased and colleges built with your tithes and offerings  plainly show your leader doesn't believe his own press about "time is short".

    These same properties, in time, will be sold to others to use for the exact opposite purpose you thought you supported them for in the first place.

    If you can step back a bit and admit your doubts you'll end up wondering "what was I thinking?"

    Dreams do not a theologian make

    "And yes brethren, I am an Apostle" also does not an Apostle make

    "God knows that 'that man'...." always means "ME" when the minister is letting you in on his ill drawn conclusions about himself easily

    "But I'll save that for next week" always means "Please don't leave the church"

    Too many words and phrases in a sermon like, "overarching", "Awesome", "Never before understood", "I never realized this until writing this sermon", "Will leave you gyrating in your seats", "Will stun you' and "I don't think I have ever given a sermon quite like this one" and so on simply means, "I'll keep you praying,  obeying, paying and staying anyway I can".

    ...and so on. You know it when you hear it.

    We are a mixed group here having come out of the homogenized environment of the Worldwide Church of God.  Good for us.  We're not evil. We're not scoffers (Noticing is not scoffing. Scoffing is what those not wishing to be called out on their abuses call noticing.)  We are ok to ask, "Where is the promise of his coming" because , well...it's been 2000 years and that's not our common view of "things which must shortly come to pass', and "behold I come quickly."

    No one is going to any ever burning or burn you up Lake of Fire for not belonging to this or that True Church of God and it's ok to each have our own unique experience and outcomes with the Worldwide Church of God, the Armstrongs, Tkaches and all those that followed.  We all process our shortcomings, experiences, perceptions and lessons learned differently.  



    If everyone who participates here on Banned got together for a pot luck, with the singles bringing the watermelon of course, it would be one amazing night out!











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    Dave is warning his flock that three COG leaders will soon be possessed by Satan and his demons.  They were preordained to be possessed.  Since the moment they were born their destiny has been to be possessed by Satan and some of his lesser demons.  These three then will rampage thought Church of God casting spells and doing miracles.  Miracles done so well that thousands of COG members will start following them instead of going to or staying with Dave.
    The man of sin is likely a short period, but I don’t know. I don’t know, and I want you to understand. The one—or all three—I would suspect, of these men will not invite Satan. No one asks the devil to possess them. I want you to realize there are three men today that God will literally send the devil and probably other demons, into the other two. They will be as stunned and unexpecting—but having been born to be taken and destroyed—as stunned and unexpecting of what’s going to happen as everybody around them.
    They’re not three men plotting to be devil-possessed or demon-possessed. God is going to do this to them. He’s going to put the devil in them exactly the way Christ put the devil in Judas to carry out His will. I want to just say, again, I’ve cast demons out of people many times. None of them ever sought possession. When the devil hits these men it will be WHAM. They will not see it coming, but their character and their evil nature invited it. They were born to this task, just as you were born and God called you, way back, in some cases, like John the Baptist or Jeremiah—almost from the womb. These men were pre-selected for this purpose, and they may get salvation someday.
    Dave has had extensive interactions with demons throughout his magnificent life.  He has talked to them and rebuked them  He knows they can be powerful.
    What does “all power, signs, and lying wonders” mean? What does it mean? Let me give you a sense. I’ve dealt with so much of this through my life. I want to give you a sense. All power, signs, and lying wonders…I’ll give you a combination of what the Scriptures show about tricks the devil pulls, and things I have seen in my life. There will be visions, voices, and calling fire down. The devil poured fire out of the sky, and you know that the devil can do that. In the book of Revelation, with the False Prophet, he may do that. He can cause storms. He’s the prince of the power of the air. He can foretell things and get a lot of them right, like soothsayers do. He can use false tongues. Perhaps many of his followers will be possessed…You can go back to listen to this when you have more time, later.
    He can levitate objects and teleport them, and travel them around. Pharaoh’s magicians could turn sticks in the snakes. Now—God did it, too—but so did they. And they could turn water into blood, and when they do it, they can claim “We’re like Moses.” They’re certainly not going to say they’re like the magicians of Egypt. You understand. Satan gave boils to Job, God’s servant. He can create loud noise for fear and effect; destructions, temptations, accusations, lies, and subtle deceptions of all kinds. The devil can do all of these things, and a whole variety of tricks that only the devil could think of…statues bleed, all kinds of things, possess animals. This is the powerful reality of what’s coming when God says this man will have all power, signs, and lying wonders.
    Just imagine if one of these three is Doubly Blessed Bob Thiel!  With all of that anger and frustration pent up in his delusional mind, all hell will be released.  Interesting times are ahead!



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