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Another COG False Teacher Claims Women Should Cover Their Heads While Praying

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Over the decades various Church of God false teachers have tried to force the old covenant upon church members, particularly when it comes to women in the church.   Women have always gotten the brunt of everything, from disobeying their husbands, committing the first sin, wearing make up, speaking  in church, and much more.

Each of these false teachers have set themselves up as God's supposed mouthpiece on earth that are filled with special inside revealed knowledge.  One of the bigger groups to force women to cover themselves in prayer and speaking is Yisrayl Hawkins cult in Abilene, Texas.

These pictures are of women leading prayers and teaching classes which is exclusively for women.  They cover their heads and their mouths when speaking and praying in church. During Hawkins preaching on Saturdays, women are kept separate from the men who also cover their heads while even some of the men cover their mouths.

Quite truthfully, this is appallingly sick.  Yet, we have two more Church of God cult leaders who also claim women should be covering their heads, Pharisee James Malm and Almost-arrested Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Habakkuk, African prophet, second witless witness, and the most disappointing "son" of Rod Meredith, claim their women must cover their heads when praying.  All three of these men have made a profession about bastardizing the law to fit their perverted interpretations and imaginations.

We have reported previously about James Malm's  demands on the women in his cult group.  Now we have Almost-arrested Thiel claiming his female members should over their heads during prayers.  I wonder what the women in Africa feel like when some sniveling fraud in American tells them to cover their heads?

Here is Elisha Thiel's list of demands that he has laid out for his cult members to follow when praying.  28 steps to pray!  No one needs 28 steps on how to do it. How incredibly stupid is that!  Here is his list:

Here is a listing of the 28 tips:


1. Pray to God the Father

2. Worship God in Truth

3. Believe God
4. Obey God: Do More than the Demons 
5. Worship God in Spirit


6. Resist Satan

7. Don't Fight God

8. Pray for Others
9. Pray for Your Needs
10. Remember God’s Will and Have Your


Priorities in Order

11. Praying Positions from the Bible

12. Pray Every Day
13. Forgiveness
14. Recognize God’s Spirit
15. Pray for What the Bible Says to Pray For 
16. Ask for Spiritual Gifts
17. Don’t Pray for Show
18. Obey the New Testament About Head


Coverings

19. Ask Often, Do Not Use Vain Repetitions,

But Be Fervent

20. If You Are Suffering or Sick, Pray About It

21.Pray for Church Leaders
22. Pray For Secular Leaders
23. Put Jesus in Your Prayers
24. The difficult: Remember Fasting
25. Pray With Thanksgiving
26. Deal With 'Secret Sins'
27. Change Can Make That Possible
28. Close with Amen 





This is what happens when foolish men set themselves up as purveyor's of truth when all they are doing is setting forth their own perverse teachings.  This is what happens when law is more important that ever following Jesus.


Paul Being Hard to Be Understood

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Fifty years ago, (Hoooly Long Haired Lions!), when I was 18, Garner Ted Armstrong went Bat Sh%# Crazy in the middle of a sermon in the AC Gym and screamed, "If you don't like it here, get out!" It was a real quiet moment in the gym and a what's buggin' him moment. He went back to the sermon.

The following Monday, Richard Plache came and got me out of Freshman Bible class and said, "Mr. Ted Armstrong wants to see you." It was a quiet elevator ride up to the 4th heaven in the Hall of Administration....  

When I got into his office, there he was in the flesh.  I had never met him but had listened to him on the radio as a teen with my transistor radio. It would of been an great moment, but I sensed this was not going to be a great moment.  

He had his hands behind his head and his feet on his desk.  Uh oh....defense mode.  The first words GTA ever said to me in this world were, "Why do you hate me?" I said, "Why would I hate you?  I just got here at AC.  I have admired you on the radio for years." He said, "Do you know I was talking to YOU in the sermon Sabbath?" Ugh...well, I did notice he was staring over my way when he went nuts.  I assured him that all was well and I really had no idea why he would feel that way.  (It took a decade for me to figure what the real problem was that day. I was dating the same student he was. He feared I knew too much and my look to him that Sabbath proved it.)  Any way...he then told me, assured I knew nothing much, said..."Well your hair is too long and you are to get a haircut.  It covers your forehead and the forehead is the seat of the intellect."

Sure fine, what?  Everything in me wanted to ask if the frontal bones also blocked the intellect, but I wasn't ready for that move yet.  So I submitted to a Church of God haircut for men.   It looked no different before the cut than it does to this day save for the brown being replaced by silver but I wanted to stay in college, God's College and be the minister I went there to be.  He also told me not to think to come there to be a minister, but I didn't tell him what I was thinking on that one.



Speaking of Hair...

2 Peter 3:16
"He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

While not actually written by Peter, but rather a later Church father type addressing issues far beyond Paul's actual lifetime, even they found Paul hard to understand at times.

The Pressing Problem of Long Haired Men and Bald Women/Or The Pressing Problem of Women Uncovered Heads

Which?

I Corinthians 11:

1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
    Meaning:  Now  do what I tell you because I hallucinated this from Christ since I never met any real earthly Jesus who offered an opinion on this vital matter. 

2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.  

Meaning:  Thank you for being some of the few people who like me or how I think. Do what I told you, as I told you  and how I told you to do it
3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Meaning:  This is what I believe and the reason I place women in the que where I do.  
4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
Meaning:  Unsure yet.  Maybe men aren't to cover heads with a hat , some Middle Eastern traditional garb when praying, or have long hair. It may even mean the man dishonors God, his "head"
5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Meaning:  Unsure yet. Maybe not wearing a scarf or traditional Middle Eastern garb over the head or have short hair. It may also mean she dishonors her husband or men, who are her "head".
6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
Meaning:  Because if she is uncovered somehow in a way not yet sure of his meaning, she may as well be shaved bald,  so cover up. Paul was an "all or nothing" type of guy evidently with little room in the middle for compromise. 
7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
Meaning:  Indeed, men should have their heads visible and not covered either with some kind of traditional Middle Eastern garb or with long hair
8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
Meaning:  Paul reflects the ignorance of his times.  Men do come from women both in birth and genetically as a female template prior to birth which is why men have nipples.  But let's skip a longer explanation here.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Meaning:  Paul read this in the Genesis story and again with no knowledge of the reality of where human beings actually come from and how modern humans evolved
10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
Meaning:  This is a bit tougher to discern what Paul meant but I'd say it means "Look...Angels look up to God and since women are a bit lower than men and angels, they should look up to their men as Lord, as long as they do well.  Make sense?
11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Meaning: But there is some equality between the two if both are in the church.  
12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
Meaning:  Yeah, that's it. I know I said women came from me and not men from women a bit earlier, in the big picture and especially in the church, God made us all somewhat equal
13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
Meaning:  Ok, don't let me confuse you even though I just did.  You decide if it is appropriate for a woman to pray unto God without a cover on her head or with short hair since my meaning is not yet clear.
14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Meaning:  Um..actually no.  What are you talking about?
Nature tells me what?
Nature tells me what"
Nature tells me what?



Um...sure. Real shamer 
15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Meaning:  Men like long haired women and nature makes that clear.
Female Lioness with long hair as we learn from nature.
16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
Meaning:  But if you want to argue about it or don't see my point, then that's just the way it is in the Church and according to my commands.  So , (and this is my opinion on whether it is covering or hair), no long haired men and we better see no bald or pixie cut women in the Church.

The Accuser of the Brethren

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It has been bad day in Arroyo Grande for Almost-arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Peter- Paul and Mary, Habakkuk, doubly blessed, African prophet, second witless witness and disappointing "son" of Rod Meredith who went into meltdown mode  over a posting here that called out his absurd command for women to wear scarves on their heads when praying.  I opened my computer up before church today and the screen was all wet from his spittle flying.  Take a valium Dude!  You take yourself too seriously! Seriously!

The false prophet posted:
While I do not intend to respond to most of the falsehoods and accusations he continues to post about me, I thought it could be helpful to some for me to show what he falsely asserted about me today, to help demonstrate that he and others like him need to repent and should not be trusted until they do so.
He then proceeds to write a huge screed trying to make himself out as a martyr for the "truth" he claims is revealed to him.   After publishing a list of 28 points for prayer that included head coverings for women, he melts down that he was mocked for publishing such a useless list.  Why is it that ever y wannabe COG leader feels they need to have countless "points" in order to preach or write about something? There is already a simple formula set forth in the Bible, that most all COG leaders love to ignore as they pick and choose what THEY think is right for their LITTLE flocks, which can be found in Matthew 6:9-13.  I just happened to look at The Message version which accurately describes what Elisha Thiel did when he published his absurd list:

Matthew 6:9-13The Message (MSG)

7-13 “The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They’re full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don’t fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply.
That is exactly right!  Bob Thiel's 28 points is NONSENSE!  He is a peddler of scripture perversion inserting his own warped beliefs as standards for others to follow.   There is only this example that Christians need to consider, not the endless lists of COG ministers:


Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what’s best—
    as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You’re in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You’re ablaze in beauty!
    Yes. Yes. Yes.
Habakkuk Thiel then continues with this:
People like Gary Leonard say all kinds of evil against me falsely–this is one way they persecute. 
Sadly, Gary Leonard and many other opponents do not care about the truth and think that they are getting away with their lies and falsehoods.
How can I persecute a man who has NEVER been set apart by God to lead an end time Church of God?  God had nothing to do with a double blessing.  God never appeared in any dreams to Amos Thiel.  No matter how much he wants to "prove" himself to be right, God had NOTHING to do with the false African prophet's apostasy from the Living Church of God.  His own narcissism and vanity caused him to stab Rod Meredith in the back and set himself up as some specially appointed new end time witnesses.  If anyone in the COG preached 'the doctrine of demon's" it is Mayan authority Bob Thiel!  He is a prime example of what lying deceivers do to gullible people who truly are trying to follow God.  What he is doing is weighing each and everyone of the African members down with mill stones due to his legalistic bullshit.  Yes, Bob, you preach BULLSHIT!

After whining and grumbling he adds this, to justify his all too funny meltdowns:
Because of Proverbs 26:4, I do not respond to most of the lies and false accusations at the Banned By HWA site, but because of Proverbs 26:5, I sometimes will.
This is what Proverbs 26:5 says:
Proverbs 25:6-7The Message (MSG)
6-7 Don’t work yourself into the spotlight;
    don’t push your way into the place of prominence.
It’s better to be promoted to a place of honor
    than face humiliation by being demoted. 
Amos Thiel should have thought that verse through before he posted it! Joshua Thiel has been working over time to put himself in the spotlight.  Endless posts about double blessings, multiple dreams by himself and others, whining how Rod Meredith humiliated him, grumbling how Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God IGNORED his wise words and that he is a prophet, that he is an apostle, etc., etc., etc.  The self-appointed false prophet has continually sought to place himself in a place of prominence in the church as the ONLY work that is growing at 30%...which it is not. Elijah Thiel has the incessant need to be placed in a place of honor.  Just look at the endless number to titles he has given himself. His fake "university degrees" His non existent degree from Fuller Seminary. His appearances on radio prophecy programs, his books and articles he writes and much much more.  Being seen as important is a big deal to the hundreds of lying false prophets of Armstrongism and Thiel is no exception.  Then to top it all off with the ultimate humiliation, Elisha Thiel was DEMOTED by Rod Meredith.  He was publicly rebuked by Rod Meredith.  Meredith rejected him as a prophet.  He was cast aside. He is regularly mocked by various ministers of the Living Church of God. That has to be a bitter pill to swallow.

The false prophet then writes:
As regular readers at the COGwriter.com website are aware, I provide scriptures and many facts and reasons to back up my writings. Gary Leonard and others should ask themselves if they can accept the truth or if they prefer dismissive conceit.
As regular readers from all the Churches of God know, the ministry has a horrible track record of throwing out scriptures and twisting them to fit their own perverse beliefs.  When men lie like Thiel about God doubly blessing himself  and by self-appointing himself as a church leader, no matter how many scriptures he quotes he has no credibility. 
Gary Leonard is an accuser of the brethren (Revelation 12:10), and often a bearer of false witness (Exodus 20:16).
You Amos Thiel are NOT brethren!  You are the one that is hurting the brethren by your lies and false teachings.  The worst part in all of this is seeing sincere people in Africa duped by your lies.  You bear false witness to the everything that Jesus did and accomplished just so you can weigh their lives down with your bastardized version of the law.

Even those of your former fellowship, the Living Church of God, understand you to be an "accuser of the brethren."


See the story here:  

The doubly blessed one then writes:
Although he tries to disguise it, much of his hate is without cause. Gary Leonard hates those who pretend to be in the COG as well as those that truly are in the Church of God. Jesus taught:
You ignorant little man.  No where have I said I "hate" COG members, nor has anyone else here ever said that.  What we do hate is liars who self appoint themselves like you did, like Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Ron Wienland, and many other deceivers of the brethren have done.  You are the ones that hate the brethren.  You lie and promote lies in order to keep people away from the very person they claim to follow.  Jesus is unknown to you.   

I want people to be free to follow Jesus into the unknown and revel in grace knowing that they NEVER have to follow another idiotic Church of God minister again in their lives.  Those here that follow Jesus, those that are agnostics and atheists, actually want what is best for COG members and that is to be free.  

While we might have different ideas on how that might be accomplished we are united in getting people freed from the cesspool you and others have created.  There will be others after me, Dennis, James, Bob, Allen, etc.  We will never be stopped until the the last personality cult bites the dust.  That you can be assured off! And, you and your impotent man-made god can never stop that.  


Men Who Shave Their Heads Are Not Proper Christians

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Why is it that so many COG ministers and leaders have to stick their noses into peoples lives? We have had men over the decades dictating clothing colors, car colors, red ties for men, hair lengths, how close to dance, skirt lengths, what type of car to buy, what jobs to have and not have, etc.   Almost-arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Habakkuk, doubly blessed and bitter disappointing "son" to Rod Meredith is also dictating what men should not be doing with their hair,

According to the false prophet and false teacher men should NOT shave their heads.  Why?   Because some pagan thousands of years ago might have shaved his head.  They also shaved their faces, but you never see the foolish hypocrite claiming men should not do that ether.

Christian women should not have short masculine hair styles and Christian men should not have long feminine hairstyles. Since pagan priests tended to totally shave their heads, this does not seem to be a proper regular practice for Christian men (Leviticus 19:27; 21:5).

The Woo Woo Masters

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Definition of woo–woo


  1. :  dubiously or outlandishly mystical, supernatural, or unscientific thinking, practices and beliefs

  2. And she has written a book … in which she dismisses what she calls “woo-woo spirituality” in favor of some straight talk on living with loss … 
  3. — Linda Richman

  4. Energy beams from the eyes certainly sounds like woo-woo stuff …
  5.  — Steve Blow
Jesus Christ returning to Wadsworth, Ohio where Dave Pack can preach, "He walks with ME, and he talks with ME and he tells ME I am his own" is pure Woo Woo
__Dennis Diehl

woo–woo

 nounOne man's woo-woo, of course, is another's deeply held belief system. — Julia Moskin
When teaching therapeutic massage at a local college, one of the classes I taught was on watching out for quackery or "woo woo" as it is wont to be called in the field.  I endeavored to instill in students that not every modality that is available to them in massage therapy is something they might want to risk charging people for and that making dubious claims, perhaps outside their scope of practice , may cause them nothing but trouble.


I demonstrated not only the dangers of but the lousy science associated with ear candling.  Ear Candling is the idea that vast amounts of debris can be drawn out of the ear canal with a flaming cone candle which sets up a suction drawing the debris out of the ear.  It does not and cannot work as advertised and it is dangerous to boot.  Some charge $50 for this service and it is simply a useless procedure.  I demonstrated this by doing an ear candling on a student and burning another candle in a cup. I then unrolled both and had them tell me which one was in the ear and which in the cup.  They were both the same.  The "wax" came from the candle, no the ear.

Another bit of woo woo was "Ionic Foot Baths".  In this, one's feet soak, and it feels great, in a slightly electrified foot bath with salts added to the water.  Soon "scum" makes it's appearance in the water and was once said, until the Government said enough of this BS, yellow scum was from the speen, brown was nicotine,  green was from the liver and so on.  Like foot pads that "release toxins" in the feet, it is bogus.  If one leaves the feet out of the bath, the salt and electricity produce the scum anyway.  It's bad science and a $50 scam I warned them not to sell in their practice if they knew what was good for them.
In Therapeutic Massage some are taught "to drink a lot of water because we push around a lot of toxins" Studies has shown this to be less than dramatically true and "a lot of water" for some is cup while others will risk death and drink gallons. 
Sermons in the churches of God can stir up a lot of toxins as well or more than not, be the source of them driving one to drink without being advised to. 
I once worked for a Chiropractor who had a stim unit with three settings.  Low, Medium and Spirit.  No really, the highest setting was "Spirit! " I asked him why he had that and he admitted he didn't know and "It's just bullshit" and smiled.    We lost more clients on that setting than the other two combined.  His Reflexologist made life decisions by asking Spirit to show her three yellow truck on the way to work if the answer was yes to her questions.  She almost got fired for making a client winch when getting reflexology and when he did said, "Did that hurt?  Hmmm....you have a heart condition."  Woo Woo! and practicing outside the scope of her practice as does  Dave Pack , Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel , and all other split, splinter and sliver Woo Woo artists. 
I have my doubts about practices such as homeopathy, reflexology and various forms of "energy work." At a seminar once, when my skepticism was still fresh from my WCG experience, we were doing energy work and "feeling" the energy around the body without touching it.  "Can you feel it?" asked the teacher,  Everyone said  "uh...yes!  I feel it".  Well ....I said, "Not really" and then it began.  "I don't actually either...",  "Me either....." and before it could spread too far the teacher said it was not important yet at this point to feel it and moved on quickly.  LOL  
There is plenty of Woo Woo in the Churches of God and in the leadership of those churches.
Dave Pack is a Woo Woo Master with his never ending Waterhousian speculations about how Christ will return, when and where along with his glorious part in it all.  He's simply full of Woo Woo and NONE of what Dave says will every happen .  In fact, I guarantee it, both in this age and in the age to come . Dave's use the scriptures is pathetic and toxic to his followers.  It will not end well.
Gerald Flurry is also a Woo Woo Master in the style of Dave Pack, or maybe it is Dave who is in Gerald's style of Woo Woo.   Gerald is given to Prayer Rock, Stones of Scone and Ark of the Covenant Woo Woo .  There is some Song of Solomon Woo Woo thrown in their somewhere for some reason but that is called Woo Hoo in some circles.  
Dr. Thiel is a Woo Woo Master as seen in his self ordination simply because someone asked Bob's God to give him a double portion of the Spirit when being anointed for sinus drainage. (Just kidding.  I don't know the malady he had when anointed. Perhaps Biggisegoitis which is a swelling of the head.   From that Bob  practices  his own Woo Woo and then dreams himself into a Prophet and Head Woo Woo Master of yet another only true church.  Bob has a tendency to Major in the Minor Woo Woos when he sermonizes but how he got to be so important a theologian in his own mind is by pure Woo Woo, mystical and magical.
Ron Weinland was a Financial Woo Woo Master with a major emphasis on a message of End Time  Woo Woo, which, like Dave Pack's Woo Woo, never did, ever will or ever could come to pass.  His Apostleship was also a function of Woo Woo magic and theological maneuvering and manipulation.  It's difficult , and you have to be creative in anointing yourself an Apostle with no backing from others, but with the right application of Woo Woo, it happens like magic!  You simple wear down your congregation and by the time they have had enough and want to go eat lunch, you announce,  "And yes brethren, I am an Apostle." Sure, fine, whatever....let's eat.  
Joe Tkach got himself caught up in Evangelical Woo Woo complete with Gods a many , well three and all the Woo Woo of Incarnational Theology. While this is the mare traditional theology of Christianity, Woo Woo nonetheless and like all religious thought, can be contemplated but never proven to be real or factual.  It's a feel good Woo Woo with precious little appeal to Church of God types who simply have to have their prophetic Woo Woo to keep them in their seats, paying, praying, obeying, gyrating  and staying. 
Quackery is alive and well in the Churches of God.  It mainly settles around the self proclaimed credentials of the Woo Woo Master and his prophetic rants, speculations and pathetic manipulation of scriptures making them mean what they never meant or can mean.  While entertaining at times and providing excellent examples of how the human mind can become toxic with God-Haunted views, those associated with, following minus critical thinking and caution and just sure their man is preachin' God's truth are going to be in for one sorry surprise in time.  
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and there simple is none for the claims of the Church of God Woo Woo Masters.  











Why has the Church of God always been embarrassed about its self?

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I am on a secret Facebook page filled with over 780 former COG members that has all kinds of conversations going on, usually about abuse at the hands of the ministry or church.  One of the conversations has centered around how the church called it's self  a "nondenominational church" instead of a Christian church.

I remember in 1962 when I was in first grade that we had been instructed to say the church we attended was nondenominational.  We did not claim to be Christian because that was a label for back sliding,  Sunday keeping, pork eating  Christmas keeping false Christians, even though they proclaimed Jesus much more than the COG did.

Because of church beliefs many thought church members were Jews because  we rarely, if at all, talked about Jesus but sure talked about old testament holy days and old testament biblical characters.  However, church members found the Jewish label to be just as offensive as being called Christian.  

Church literature and sermons rarely mentioned Jesus and if they did, it was in the last couple of paragraphs in an article or as a side comment in a sermon.

Even Herbert Armstrong could not bring himself to say God or Jesus and had to talk about a "strong hand from some place."

When HWA started gallivanting around the world bribing audiences with world leaders with offers of cash and Steuben crystal, he did it under the auspices of the Ambassador International Cultural Foundation.  It was too embarrassing to say he was there as a leader of a church.

Even if you look back at old issues of the Tomorrow's World magazine, which was supposed to be filled with "meaty" articles for the baptized, there was seldom mention of Jesus, but lots and lots of law.

I think part of the problem today that almost all of the various COG incarnations suffer from is the fact they still cannot take a stand on who they are and what they believe.  They pretend to be Jewish, then whence when people compare them to the Jews. They pretend to be Christian, but can't talk about Jesus.  

Because the church has no identity, it allows it self to fall under the spell of devious men like Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel and James Malm.   These men have made it all about themselves. They are special conduits of streaming knowledge directly from God the Father, but never Jesus.  Everything revolves around their personal interpretations regardless of how sick and perverted it is.  Just look at Dave Pack and Bob Thiel with all their self aggrandizing comments about themselves.  It is all about them and not the church or Jesus.

United Church of God makes endless attempts to make a name for itself with public campaigns and appearances, but it has accomplished nothing other than spending hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It has left no witness about Jesus anywhere.

Now that this version of the Church of God movement moves into the 80 some years of existence it is still shocking that it still has no identity or focus on the one it claims to follow. 

One Facebook user made the following accurate description of the Church of God:


"A non denominational non sectarian educational group in the public interest!"

This is exactly why not a single Church of God group is growing today nor has any impact.

The Church of God and the Baluchitherium

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Never has there been a church that has felt it has had to have the answer about everything mentioned in the Bible.  Every myth, allegory and metaphor had to have an explanation in order to prove them as "true" and "factual." The problem with all of that is the things they tried to prove as true were not and the things they really needed to believe, they refuse to acknowledge.  But that is another story that most here already know.

One of the things we attempted to prove was the meaning behind the behemoth mentioned in Job. Those wise archaeologists of the letter answering department  latched on to the discovery of the largest creature ever found, the Baluchitherium.  This was the behemoth of scripture. They then claimed that this was the large animal that was supposedly created when Adam and Ever were created.


Begin with Job 40:15: “Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee: he eateth grass like an ox.” What does this tell us?
First, as recent articles in “The Plain Truth” have graphically shown, God made a distinct creation of plants, including grass, and animals for the benefit and pleasure of man. The warm-blooded animals and the grasses and herbs were FIRST made when man was made — about 6000 years ago (Gen. 1:24-25). Evolutionists have always been puzzled at the fact that this kind of vegetation appeared so late in geological history.
Now notice again Job 40:15: “Behold now behemoth, WHICH I MADE WITH THEE ….” Here is an animal God made when man was made. Behemoth did not exist in the pre-Adamic world which was filled with giant dinosaurs and other types of strange creatures. Behemoth was an UNIQUE animal created WITH MAN — and for a purpose, as we shall see later!  Plain Truth, March 1964
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Notice the amazing confirmation that the giant rhinoceros “Baluchitherium” was “the chief of the ways of God.” It’s described in a modern book on fossil animals: “In an age when a hippopotamus is big and the elephant a giant, “Baluchitherium” seems ALMOST UNREAL. His head was about 5 FEET LONG, yet it was absurdly small upon his gigantic body, which stood 18 FEET HIGH at the shoulder and was very deep” (“The Fossil Book”, Fenton, page 406).
Another author reveals the fact that “Baluchitherium” was “at least 25 FEET LONG” (“Historical Geology”, Dunbar page 413).
“It was the LARGEST OF ALL LAND MAMMALS” (“Time, Life, and Man”, Stirton, page 325). 
Not only was it the largest of all known land mammals, but “very probably, like the huge sauropod dinosaurs among the reptiles, IT REPRESENTS ABOUT THE MAXIMUM SIZE TO WHICH A LAND-LIVING MAMMAL CAN DEVELOP” (“The Illustrated Library of the Natural Sciences”, article “Giants of the Past,” by Colbert, Vol. II, page 1192). 
His great legs, longer than those of elephants and living rhinoceroses, also gave him the RECORD FOR SPEED among both of these groups, living or extinct” (“The Wonder Books”, Janssen & Cole, page 324). 
But, there is yet more proof! 
Notice again the inspired Biblical account of “behemoth.” Job 40:18 informs us: “His bones are as strong pieces of BRASS; his bones are like BARS OF IRON.” These facts are upheld by the findings of “Baluchitherium”: “‘Baluchitherium’, as it was called, had HUGE POSTLIKE LIMBS …” (“Time, Life, and Man”, Stirton, page 325).
The church spent time and money having people study these subjects when they refused to study that most inconvenient dude they never attempt to really follow.  The church has always made a business out of majoring in minors and never getting to the meat of the matter.

That tradition of wallowing in the unnecessary things still is alive today in all of the splinter groups today.  That is why none of them are growing.  They are so out of touch with reality that people are turned off by everything they teach.

SaveSaveSaveSaveSaveSave

Leaving the Fold

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There is an interesting conversation going on in a COG related Facebook page right now over how the church felt the need to control all aspects of the members lives.  The above quote is from Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell

Being enveloped by a church that seeks to control every aspect of a members life leads to a false sense of security.  A person meets the warm approval of family members and friends and the church looks upon you favorable, if it is as nothing more than a money making entity.  But dare to step outside that cocoon and the world quickly changes.  Even though the person who has left is healthier, mentally, spiritually and physically, there is still the loss of approval that sometimes creeps in.

An excerpt from the book states:


It has been a wells established fact that those who are in fundamentalist groups, and the COG was fundamentalist to its core, are in it for security and for the sense of belonging to something special.

The Church of God has always presented its self as something special, called out, set apart from, God ordained.  That was the very thing Herbert Armstrong used when he rebelled against the church and started his own version, steeped in extra-biblical interpretations received though special revelations received in the public library or from his god.  His previous association was wrong and he was right. God had personally revealed to him the right and true way.  Those that bought into it were special and set apart from the lukewarm believers they left behind.

Continuing on from the above quote:


The church has always felt the need to have an answer for everything.  Why else would the church have produced hundreds and hundreds of "Letters" from the Letter Answering Department, or the countless booklets, books, magazine articles and hundreds of thousands of sermons.  Having one's questions answered provided a sense of relief knowing that one was no longer accountable and had no need to study or research further.  God's minister said it, so let it be done!

We see this today in the various fringe groups of Armstrongism.  Bob Thiel does it with sermons covering 10-20 different subjects at a time.  Dave Pack does it with 190+ new revelations from his god.  His members no longer need to think, just accept and they will be saved.  Gerald Flurry does it with his members when he threatens their salvation by daring to say "hi" to a family member who has left the fold.  Rond Weinland has led his members to believe they are so special that they will soon be gods, kings and priests in his world a few months away.   Rod Meredith has done the exact same thing by telling his members they are special and set apart from all other COG's. God is doing a special end time work with them exclusively. And then there is United, which has never quite been able to figure out what it needs to be doing, yet they are so special and called out, so much so that even Jelly has more followers than Jesus does.

Everything in the church seems to be exaggerated to the extreme. Doom, death and immediate obliteration is the game of the day for the church.  Members are constantly being warned about one thing after another. Famine, disease, parents eating children, concentration camps, invading Russian, Germans or Chinese armies, rampaging Muslims, all fear factors to maintain control.  As long as members stay together in the fold, they will fight and survive together because God will exclusively protect them.

We were always encouraged to "fight the good fight" and if we did then we had guaranteed entrance into the World Tomorrow where the lion would be dwelling with the lamb and we would be wielding rods of iron over our dominions or worlds.  that all sounds pretty good to this eon the "right" side of ht equation, but no so much for those being ruled over.  But that never mattered.  We were special. We were set apart.  We were God's very one chosen from billions of people. 

All of the benefits that the Church of God/Armstrongism offered always externals. Being kings, priests, world rulers and God was more important than the inner healing of one's heart and mind. Church members were and still are constantly berated as never quit measuring up. We were sinful slobs/worms that God was just itching to blot out.  The glorious rewards of the World Tomorrow were always just out of reach.  God always seemed eternally pissed at us, even more so than the deceived world around us.  It was our fault that Jesus never returned when he was supposed to.  We were not ready.  It was our fault that Loma Armstrong died from bowel blockage because the church was backed up with sin and rebellion.  That list can go on and on.

There's nothing inherently wrong with meeting human needs. However, in practice these needs are exaggerated and used to frighten potential converts into joining and to preserve existing membership. In fundamentalism, the dangers of life -- both now and in the here after -- are emphasised. Incredible threats and promises are made for heaven, hell and miracles here on Earth. The result is that people are disempowered by this approach to having their needs met. Since the source of all the benefits offered is external, requiring dependence on God and the church, internal resources atrophy. This process degrades the self and becomes a serious threat to human well-being. 

It all gets exhausting after a while trying to constantly measure up.  Our brains atrophy because our thinking has been done for us or we finally realize that we are worthless creatures and what's the point of trying any more.  The questioning stops and people just trundle on week after week listening to bland and boring sermons waiting for that "strong hand from someplace" to finally make things right.

In spite of all of that, there are individuals that never settle for the status quo and let that spark of questioning be given space to shine forth and they wake up.  They realize that so much of what they have been taught is not the "truth" and step out into the unknown where questions do not always need answers. Doubt, ambiguity and the gray areas of life then become learning places and growth.

Are you willing to live in doubt and ambiguity?





UPDATE: Fred Dattalo Sinks to New Low: Members to cut off contact with non-member spouses

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UPDATE:  Will Fred Dattalo practices what he preaches now that his own son and family have left the PCG?

A reader here writes:  

I have heard the Fred Dattolos Son Michael Dattolos has recently left the church and his wife and son. I guess his own advice now is a witness against him....laodiceans policy msg given a few months ago. I guess what goes around comes around. 


The perverse teachings of the Philadelphia Church of God just keep getting worse and worse.  Gerald Flurry recently extended the no contact rule to all children/adults who are not part of the PCG.

Now the degenerate teachings take an even darker party.  PCG members are to cut off all contact with mates and spouses who have stopped attending PCG, even if they are "pleased to dwell" with their spouse.

Fred Dattalo is a sick man like Cal Culpepper.  Both of these "men" hail from Pasadena where they learned to treat the "common people" like dirt, which they regularly did while employed in accounting and the auditorium.

Just heard that Fred Dattalo from Canada made the announcement Sabbath that the No Contact ruling now extends to mates/spouses that have stopped attending. What happened to "if they're pleased to dwell with you?". One member got up and left during services! Why aren't more leaving? Maybe because people want to walk away from their families and they use Flurry as their reason! Sickening! Their love has Waxed cold and they are without natural affection! 

Finally a report that one person had the wherewithal to stand up and walk out!

Human Gullibility

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Bob Thiel never got the memo


"Gullibility is a failure of social intelligence in which a person is easily tricked or manipulated into an ill-advised course of action.  It is closely related to credulity, which is the tendency to believe unlikely propositions that are unsupported by evidence." A definition taken from the Internet.

Credulity is "a tendency to be too ready to believe that something is real or true." A definition taken from the Internet.

When I was a young man (I am now 74), and in the military, I heard the "World Tomorrow" radio broadcast which was hosted by either Herbert W. Armstrong or Garner Ted Armstrong.  At that time in my life, I was very inexperienced about the world in which we live.   I readily accepted and believed that the voice of the World Tomorrow program was convincing.

In life there are innumerable voices that speak out and to the general public and very often those voices are convincing in what they have to say.  Many human beings are by nature very gifted public speakers.  Public speakers often have an uncanny ability to persuade those who listen to their speeches, or what they have to say.  This is true not only in religious ideas, teachings and beliefs, but in politics, in advertising and in countless endeavors of life on earth.

I have come to the conclusion that a great deal of success in terms of having power and control over the minds of the general public, has to do with salesmanship.  A commercial product can be sold to the public, as in the Home Shopping Channel or by say QVC (Quality Value Convenience), because the products are presented as the greatest, the best, the most advanced, the "you can't live without this", the most astounding, the "your life will be better if you buy this",  only a few are left (implying you better call in and order now),  these will never be available again, three payment plan,  guaranteed or you have 30-days to return and so forth.

Religion is much the same as QVC or Home Shopping on television. Religion teaches that if you pay tithes, you reap a harvest, if you accept Jesus Christ you insure your eternal salvation,  that if you go to church, submit to your pastors and obey those who have the authority over you, you are doing the will of God.  If you attend annual "Holydays" you will be accepted by God.  If you believe what your preacher teaches and says, you are living in the will of God.  If you keep the Saturday Sabbath, God will smile upon you. If you think and believe "the Bible" is inspired by God, you are among the brethren, who also have faith.

Preachers "guarantee" your salvation "if" you believe what they tell you and you tithe.  Preachers quote certain verses from the Bible, because those cherry picked verses equate to what they want you to believe.  Preachers would have you believe that we are "living in the end times" (never mind that "end times", has been around for the last 2,000 years),  Some preachers invent sayings such as "Manna Fest", "Revival", "Holydays", "Reformation", "Prophetic Ministry", "Slain in the Spirit", "Holy Laughter", "Last Days", "Gift of Supernatural Healing", "Infallible Bible" and endless other terms that seduce the naive and the gullible.

There is a great human weakness in common humans to believe charismatic public speakers, and yet 100% of those charismatic speakers will exist planet earth, the same as all other humans, and they will never be seen or heard from again.  Why do people follow these men and women?  Answer: GULLIBILITY!!!

Being gullible or naive is an unfortunate massive problem with human beings.  The "news" media on public television is the single most lying institution on planet earth, closely followed by the movie industry.  When the "news" speaks, it would be far better to turn the television off, because the propaganda is politically motivated with hidden agendas.

Personally I NEVER trust television "news" or even the movie industry with "truth." To think that preachers speak for God and represent God, is no different.  A few preachers may have sincere motives, but their entire basis of what they believe is based upon INK on PAPER called "the Bible", which was 100% penned by human beings, very UNinspired by God, but who had motives that are little understood in the modern world.

How many thousands of years will pass before common people stop believing preachers?   How many thousands of years will pass before common people stop paying tithes to preachers, who live in mansions and fly around the world in private jets and who make pretense that they are "anointed" by God?  How many thousands of years will families sacrifice their children, their lives, their time and their pocketbooks to preachers?

There has to come a time in life on earth when the world stops believing preachers.  Going to church is a social activity and indeed there may be friendships, but there is also a $price to pay.  The one who reaps the $benefits of tithing, is of course the preachers.   Human governments reap their tithes from taxation. Tithing is the twin of taxation.  Both are inventions of those who rule by force, compulsion and fear-mongering.  If you really believe you should tithe, why not put your check in an envelope and address it to "God in Heaven" and let the post office deliver it?

In time all church goers have to come to the conclusion that they have been deceived, because no preacher who ever lived has come back from the grave, nor has any other human.  It is impossible to prove that there is life after death, it is just something all humans "hope" is real, and in an existence of paradise.  Most things church members think are true are impossible to prove.  To base ones whole life upon ancient writings of men, none of us know or have ever encountered is quite preposterous.  Personally, I would have to believe that the so called "apostle" Paul was a man very much like Herbert W. Armstrong, who appointed himself an "authority" for God.  There is absolutely no valid reason to believe in legends and myths as if God ordained those men, those writings or those circumstances.


Van Robison

A Reminder Just How Dangerous Some Of The COG Teachings Can Be

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So many in the various COG's see no problem with all the apocalyptic doom that their ministers continually spout out.  After all, it's in the Bible so it has to be true.  While this is an "old" story of a Church God member, it still has meaning today in light of the horrible rhetoric coming our of Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel, Rod Meredith/Gerald Weston and James Malm.  How long will it be till these false prophets have blood on their hands?  How will they lie their way out of it this time?

The video above is a reminder what can happen when people in the church are pushed over the edge by the ongoing rhetoric and lies of church ministers.  Of course they all start making excuses as Living Church of God did when Terry Ratzman murdered LCG members in Milwaukee.

Prove All Things---Believe it---Hold on to it---How?

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Remember back in the day when you may have first started attending the Worldwide Church of God or along the way met other members in various other WCG congregations or at the Feast of Tabernacles and you were asked, "So....How did YOU come into the truth?"

The answer was usually a simple story of relating to driving late at night and hearing the World Tomorrow Broadcast or picking up a copy of the Plain Truth at a Newstand.  Some few may have been convinced by a coworker or a family member.  But it was a simple process.  One hears, one likes the message, one believes.

We all claimed, in our minds, that we searched out the matter and "studied" to see if these things be so.  We read the Bible, we compared scriptures Old and New.  We compared what the Bible said with what we were told it said by our previous religious affiliations and found them wanting. We proof texted our way through the scriptures and finally ended up "proving all things and holding fast to that which was good."  We were set. Nothing new to learn and if there was, it had to be presented by the fearful and humble to the high and lofty for approval.  Truth was dribble down theology.  Right up to the end, Truth had to be approved by leadership.  It had to be delivered by leadership in the form of Apostles and Evangelists and even the Evangelists had to get the OK from the Apostles.

On top of all that, we'd never consider that the Bible itself was anything less than "God breathed." Every quote, every person, every story, every event, every promise and every threat for not believing it were absolutely immutable and exactly how it all happened in history, time and space. To question is to lose faith and to doubt or notice other explanations or problems in text or leadership is scoffing according to the scriptures.  It is also being twice dead when once will do.  

In RCG, you get your truth from David C Pack who is an authoritarian mere Bible reader know it all except he doesn't. There is a price to pay if you don't get your truth and prove all things with his approval.

In PCG you get your truth from Gerald Flurry who is an authoritarian mere Bible reader know it all except he doesn't. There is a price to pay if you don't get your truth and prove all things with his approval.

In  all the slivers run by theologically challenged farmers all outstanding in their field and in their minds, truth is pronounced, dreamed and received from God.  I recall my first "What the hell?" feeling when RCM said in freshman Bible "There is God, then Christ, then Herbert W Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong, myself and other leading (not to be named) Evangelists ...."  I chuckled not knowing chuckling was not allowed in RCM's presence.

These not only don't know how to actually view the Bible, aren't theologically and professionally educated but they also can't imagine there is a view different from the ones they come up with. .

And now look at them...  


Too soon old, Too late Schmart


The Scientific Method

"Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads, or you shall learn nothing. I have only begun to learn content and peace of mind since I have resolved at all risks to do this.”

Thomas Huxley

























Or....

     "Trust and Obey for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey."?
             
             "So we all can agree, not disagree and be  happy"?



Does this sound like "prove me now herewith" or any real reason to believe anything as important as "What's it all about?" 





Dennis Rohan and how he almost drug the Church of God into a Middle East War

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Some of my old friends in what was the Radio Church of God, which was later renamed the Worldwide Church of God, will remember well enough Denis Michael Rohan who in 1969 brought their cult religion (and Australia) into international notoriety when he started a fire in the Al Aqsa mosque in order to hurry up apocalyptic end-time events.


Australian Radio National has what looks like a fairly comprehensive archive of interviews, videos, images, literature, court proceedings about Denis Rohan and what can lead a person to do such a thing. See their Background Briefing archive Rohan and the Road to the Apocalypse.


I suspect members of the Herbert Armstrong cult (Radio Church of God) at the time were more focussed on what the publicity meant for them - cultic fear of persecution and all that - to have noticed that this one time one person crazy event had a profound significance on Arab politics vis a vis the State of Israel. This is discussed in the Background Briefing archive. It appears that the threat of the destruction of this mosque actually catalyzed a united front on the part of the Arab states that not even the 1967 war only two years earlier had failed to accomplish.
One interesting point that emerged (new to me at any rate) was the notion of the Jerusalem Syndrome. Apparently (unsurprisingly) there is something about just being in the vicinity of Jerusalem that can activate unstable mental tendencies in some.
There's an interesting comment by Tel Aviv Professor of Religion and expert on the Jerusalem Syndrome, Alexander Van Der Haven, at the end of a program interview:
You can either use religious language to make people more extreme, make people jihadists, or you can try to in the case of Islam, you can try to emphasise more moderate beliefs in the Qu'ran, more moderate traditions. So this is the very interesting thing of religion, that people tend to regard religious beliefs as very absolute, they mean one specific thing. But in reality you can do many different things with it. Somebody might have been able to convince Denis Rohan that that you shouldn't act upon your beliefs, this is something allegorical, instead you should pick flowers in this and this garden , and one might have been able to convince him. I think what you can learn from these cases, religion is very flexible, it can lead to the most aggressive destructive behaviour and it can also lead to more quietistic behaviour. The Jerusalem Syndrome is an instance of people who act in a very strange way on certain religious discourses and stories, which of course religion has, especially in Christianity, you have the Book of Revelation, in Judaism you have this emphasis on the Temple and the hope for the restoration of the Temple. So our religious scriptures offer these extreme possibilities. I think basically you can manipulate these for the good and for the worst.
It appears Rohan was converted to the beliefs of the Radio Church of God by well-meaning members while he was in a mental institution. Rohan came to see himself as The Branch prophesied to become king over Jerusalem - partly as a result of a message given from the "Rowan tree" outside the window of his mental institution room.
I seem to recall a rumour that he also found his name in the Bible as Nahor, which of course was the Hebrew right to left reading of Rohan. 
The interesting potentials that can arise from our propensity to look for and find patterns around us! 
Background Briefing also includes an interesting article by Scott Lupo, University of Nevada, describing one of the processes by which Armstrong persuaded many to join his church. 
No doubt Rohan found religion helped him become an outwardly healthy person in many ways, giving him a sense of purpose in life. But like so many things dear to humans, it is also a two-edged sword.


Ron Weinland's "Preaching the Kingdom" cult sinks further and further into madness

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Ever since Ron Weinland and his batty wife Laura scammed his church members and the United States Government, he has been struggling to keep his cult in tact.  After he was released from prison he and his second witless witness wife have been traveling the U.S. visiting their rapidly dwindling flocks, all in an attempt to keep the money flowing in.

All of his prophecies are failing, his prediction have proven to be lies and yet he has deluded people still following him and giving him money so that he, his wife Laura, his money laundering daughter Audry and and his son can live on the tithes and offerings of gullible members.

His failures have led to 37 of his ministers leaving.


First of all Ron is such a LIAR. He said:
How many are going to be there at the return of Jesus Christ regardless of when it is, which I still believe is 2019? With all of my being, I do. But I believed the same about 2012.
HE NEVER BELIEVED CHRIST WAS RETURNING IN 2012. If that was the case why did he spend 100’s of thousands of dollars of the church’s money to have lawyers defend him on a trial that would have started AFTER May of 2012. Where was his faith. He shouldn’t have needed lawyers or the need to defend himself if Christ was to return before his trial. explain that one ron
Secondly:
(Anyway, the most staggering fact in the midst of the ordinations that have been in the Church of God—PKG—37 have been disfellowshipped. 37 ministers in the Church of God—PKG are no longer in God’s Church. That’s incredible! That’s mind boggling. There are 37 who did not remain faithful to God and Jesus Christ, to God’s government, and to me as God’s apostle, but that’s minor compared to what they actually did, not being faithful to God Almighty and Jesus Christ. There are 37 who turned against God’s Church and against God’s people. Awesome! Incredible, such numbers. Blows the mind. All the way from associate elder to evangelist. All the way through.)
AGAIN HALF TRUTHS. Most of those ordained left that organization only to be disfellowhipped because the left. They were not PUT OUT THEY WALKED OUT. THEY DID NOT LEAVE GOD’S CHURCH BUT RON AND LAURA’S CULT OF SATAN.
thirdly:
So we have to be careful how we speak and how we talk about one another, but I’ll tell you what, if it’s one of God’s ministers you’d better be extra careful and on guard because if you’re loose there you’re going to be far looser in how you talk about one another in the Body of Christ. That’s the point. If we can’t be stirred, moved, and motivated, and more on guard when it’s God’s apostle, or when it’s one of God’s prophets, or if it’s one of God’s evangelists, or one of God’s senior pastors, then I can guarantee you, you can take that to the bank, you can know that it’s far freer when it’s about one another in the Body of Christ. That’s a great tell tale sign right there. So I hear individuals that I know are not on guard against speaking out about something in a negative way. It doesn’t even have to be a matter of accusation. It can be just in a bad way or not a decent or respectful way because of the office or because of the person. It is a fearful thing because the person is in the Body of Christ and is not afraid to talk about somebody else. I fear that kind of thing, brethren. I always have, and to do otherwise is a giant mistake. I hope and pray you understand what I’m saying. Because, see, these things still go on to this day. 

What a joke. It is Laura who is the biggest gossiper in the cult. Why doesn’t he address her mouth as an example of what not to say. And the reason tongue’s are wagging is that people see what is going on in the lives of those ordained and the sins going on in the cult that are not being addressed. But if you are liked by the cult leaders you can’t do any wrong and Ron help you if you try to speak up.
They are just pissed off that they couldn’t control the situation so they lashed out to make it look bad for those that saw the truth and had to guts to leave. they disafellowhipment was put in place to keep members from reaching out and possible finding out the truth. That is why they are keep off facebook and this site. Ron is afraid of the truth. That is why not one member was allowed to attend the trial. Because the truth did come out and it did not set him free.
IN ALL REALITY THOSE THAT GET DISFELLOWHIPPED ARE TRULY THE ONES THAT ARE BLESSED.

Other COG Ministers Are Incapable of Critiquing Any Of My Revelations Due To My Superior Knowledge

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Dave Pack has published a timeline of events that he claims will occur in world history over the next few years.  It gets into detail about his "christ" coming for his first coming where he and the Restored Church of God members will reign supreme before he heads off to Jerusalem.  Dave is so sure of himself that no Church of God minister in any of the splinter groups can ever prove him wrong.  Pack's knowledge reigns supreme.  There is such a gap between their lowly thinking and his elevated status as God's right hand man that they can never cross that divide.

Don’t look for one minister in any of your congregations to be aware of the first 90 points. However sincere, because they were not in the only place where they were revealed, they are incapable of critiquing them with even remotely helpful comments. This is not to speak ill of them, but rather to describe the gap between those who have heard 140 hours of careful, detailed explanation and those who have not!

Passover Musings: But Is It and Does It Have to be Literally True?

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"The Exodus (from Greek ἔξοδος exodos, "going out") is the founding, or etiologicalmyth of Israel; its message is that the Israelites were delivered from slavery by Yahweh and therefore belong to him through the Mosaic covenant.[1][Notes 1] It tells of the enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt following the death of Joseph, their departure under the leadership of Moses, the revelations at Sinai (including the Ten Commandments), and their wanderings in the wilderness up to the borders of Canaan.[2] The exodus story is told in the books of ExodusLeviticusNumbers, and Deuteronomy, and their overall intent was to demonstrate God's actions in history, to recall Israel's bondage and salvation, and to demonstrate the fulfillment of Israel's covenant.[3]
The historicity of the story continues to attract popular attention, but the archaeological evidence does not support the historicity of the Book of Exodus.[4] The opinion of the overwhelming majority of modern biblical scholars is that it was shaped into its final present form in the post-Exilic period,[5] although the traditions behind it are older and can be traced in the writings of the 8th century BCE prophets.[6] It is unclear how far beyond that the tradition might stretch: according to historian Carol Redmount, "Presumably an original Exodus story lies hidden somewhere inside all the later revisions and alterations, but centuries of transmission have long obscured its presence, and its substance, accuracy and date are now difficult to determine."[3]
The Exodus has been central to Judaism. It served to orient Jews towards the celebration of God's actions in history, in contrast to polytheistic celebrations of the gods' actions in nature, and even today it is recounted daily in Jewish prayers and celebrated in the festival of Passover. In secular history the exodus has served as inspiration and model for many groups, from early Protestant settlers fleeing persecution in Europe to 19th and 20th century African-Americans striving for freedom and civil rights.[7]
Many of modern biblical scholars hold the opinion that the Torah, or Pentateuch (the series of five books which consist of the Book of Genesis plus the books in which the Exodus story is told) was shaped in the post-exilic period[5] (c. 538–332 BCE). There are currently two important hypotheses explaining the background to this theory:
  1. The first is Persian Imperial authorization, the idea that the post-exilic community needed a legal basis on which to function within the Persian Imperial system
  2. The second relates to the community of citizens organized around the Temple, with the Pentateuch providing the criteria for who would belong to it (the narratives and genealogies in Genesis) and establishing the power structures and relative positions of its various groups.[9]
In either case, the Book of Exodus is a "charter myth" for Israel: Israel was delivered from slavery by Yahweh and therefore belongs to him through the covenant.[1]
The final form of the Pentateuch was based on earlier written and oral traditions.[10][11] These have left traces in over 150 references throughout the Bible.[12]The earliest traces of these earlier traditions are in the books of prophets Amos (possibly) and Hosea (certainly), both active in 8th century BCE Israel. In contrast, Proto-Isaiah and Micah, both of whom were active in Judah at much the same time, show no similar traces. It thus seems reasonable to conclude the Exodus tradition was important in the northern kingdom in the 8th century BCE, but not in Judah.[6]
In a recent work, Stephen C. Russell traces the 8th-century BCE prophetic tradition to three originally separate variants, in the northern Kingdom of Israel, inTransjordan, and in the southern Kingdom of Judah respectively. Russell proposes different hypothetical historical backgrounds to each tradition:[12]
  • The tradition from Israel, which involves a journey from Egypt to the region of Bethel, he suggests is a memory of herders who could move to and from Egypt in times of crisis
  • For the Transjordanian tradition, which focuses on deliverance from Egypt without a journey, he suggests a memory of the withdrawal of Egyptian control at the end of the Late Bronze Age
  • For Judah, whose tradition is preserved in the Song of the Sea, Russell suggests the celebration of a military victory over Egypt, although it is impossible to suggest what this victory may have been.

Cultural significance

Main article: Passover
The exodus is remembered daily in Jewish prayers and celebrated each year at the feast of Passover.[13] The Hebrew name for this festival, Pesach, refers to God's instruction to the Israelites to prepare unleavened bread as they would be leaving Egypt in haste, and to mark their doors with the blood of slaughtered sheep so that the "Angel of Death" or "the destroyer" tasked with killing the first-born of Egypt would "pass over" them. Despite the Exodus story, a majority of scholars do not believe that the Passover festival originated as described in the biblical story.[14]
Jewish tradition has preserved national and personal reminders of this pivotal narrative in daily life. Examples include the wearing of tefillin (phylacteries) on the arm and forehead, the wearing of tzitzit (knotted ritual fringes attached to the four corners of the prayer shawl), the eating of matzot (unleavened bread) during the Pesach, the fasting of the firstborn a day before Pesach, and the redemption of firstborn children and animals.

Summary

There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE, and even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy.[15]Such elements as could be fitted into the 2nd millennium could equally belong to the 1st, and are consistent with a 1st millennium BCE writer trying to set an old story in Egypt.[16] So while a few scholars, notably Kenneth Kitchen and James K. Hoffmeier, continue to discuss the historicity, or at least plausibility, of the story, arguing that the Egyptian records have been lost or suppressed or that the fleeing Israelites left no archaeological trace or that the huge numbers are mistranslated, the majority have abandoned the investigation as "a fruitless pursuit".[17][18]

Numbers and logistics

According to Exodus 12:37–38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children," plus many non-Israelites and livestock. Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up. It is difficult to reconcile the idea of 600,000 Israelite fighting men with the information that the Israelites were afraid of the Philistines and Egyptians.[19] The 600,000, plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites would have numbered some 2 million people.[20] Marching ten abreast, and without accounting for livestock, they would have formed a line 150 miles long.[21] The entire Egyptian population in 1250 BCE is estimated to have been around 3 to 3.5 million,[22][20] and no evidence has been found that Egypt ever suffered the demographic and economic catastrophe such a loss of population would represent, nor that the Sinai desert ever hosted (or could have hosted) these millions of people and their herds.[23] Some have rationalized the numbers into smaller figures, for example reading the Hebrew as "600 families" rather than 600,000 men, but all such solutions have their own set of problems.[24][Notes 2]

Archaeology

A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[25] and archaeologists generally agree that the Israelites had Canaanite origins.[26] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains are in the Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite.[27] Almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether even this is an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute.[27]

Anachronisms

Despite the Bible's internal dating of the Exodus to the 2nd millennium BCE, details point to a 1st millennium date for the composition of the Book of ExodusEzion-Geber, (one of the Stations of the Exodus), for example, dates to a period between the 8th and 6th centuries BCE with possible further occupation into the 4th century BCE,[28] and those place-names on the Exodus route which have been identified – Goshen,  PithomSuccothRamesses and Kadesh Barnea – point to the geography of the 1st millennium rather than the 2nd.[29]
Similarly, the Pharaoh's fear that the Israelites might ally themselves with foreign invaders seems unlikely in the context of the late 2nd millennium, when Canaan was part of an Egyptian empire and Egypt faced no enemies in that direction, but does make sense in a 1st millennium context, when Egypt was considerably weaker and faced invasion first from the Achaemenid Empire and later from the Seleucid Empire.[30]
The mention of the dromedary in Exodus 9:3 also suggests a later date of composition – the widespread domestication of the camel as a herd animal is thought not to have taken place before the late 2nd millennium, after the Israelites had already emerged in Canaan,[31] and they did not become widespread in Egypt until c. 200–100 BCE.[32]

Chronology

The chronology of the Exodus story likewise underlines its essentially religious rather than historical nature. The number seven was sacred to Yahweh in Judaism, and so the Israelites arrive at the Sinai Peninsula, where they will meet Yahweh, at the beginning of the seventh week after their departure from Egypt,[33] while the erection of the Tabernacle, Yahweh's dwelling-place among his people, occurs in the year 2666 after Yahweh creates the world, two-thirds of the way through a four thousand year era which culminates in or around the re-dedication of the Second Temple in 164 BCE.[34][35][Notes 3]

Route

Main article: Stations of the Exodus
The Torah lists the places where the Israelites rested. A few of the names at the start of the itinerary, including Ra'amsesPithom and Succoth, are reasonably well identified with archaeological sites on the eastern edge of the Nile Delta,

Dating the Exodus

Attempts to date the Exodus to a specific century have been inconclusive. The lack of evidence has led scholars to conclude that it is difficult or even impossible to link the exodus story to any specific point in history.[43]"

PCG: Satan Wins Everytime. More Powerful Than Jesus

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One of Gerald Flurry's grand kids is lecturing the slowly dwindling flock of the Philadelphia Church of God on how powerful their mythical satan is.

Vienna Flurry writes about the all powerful Satan who "always wins!"
We, as teens in God’s Church, have in our possession a vast amount of spiritual wealth, just like Atahualpa and Zedekiah had physical wealth. Our adversary is much more dangerous than theirs were, however. Our adversary is Satan, and he is constantly looking for every opportunity to take our spiritual wealth away from us. 1 Peter 5:8 says “Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” Satan hates the fact that our future is to be a part of God’s Family. He threw his glorious future away, and he does not want us to inherit ours.  
It’s easy for us to think we are smarter than the devil, or that we know the kinds of things he does to tempt us. But we have to know that we can’t play his game! He will always win. We can’t think that if we “bargain” with him, he will keep his promises. If we do something wrong even once, he can use that to weaken our character and get us to make the same mistake again. He will never let us go once he has us in his clutches.
What more can you expect from a group that knows little about Jesus.  Never once in her article did she mention Jesus, or any of the concepts portrayed in scriptures as to what Jesus accomplished and who or what he conquered.  Fear still is the big motivator in the Church of God.  Satan is given more power than the god they claim to worship
On our own, we stand no chance of defeating this roaring lion. Thankfully, we have God on our side! We must do our part by obeying Him and putting Him first in our lives. We must do our part to resist Satan’s temptations. We must do our part to submit to God. And if we do, then God gives us a great promise: The devil will flee from us (James 4:7)! 
We have a source of protection that is much more powerful than mere the promise of gold or silver. We have the great God. Make sure you tap into His power. 
Vienna, her grandad and her father know nothing of the man they claim to follow let alone the god they claim to know.  Morally and spiritually bankrupt people are incapable of understanding any concept of that incredibly inconvenient dude who embarrasses the hell out of them.  Their god is no more going to fight some mythical  battle with their idea of a satan than Bob Thiel is a prophet of God.

Germans Will Soon Be Joining With Blacks To Punish and Kill Americans, British, Australians

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Dave Pack is up to his old tricks, as usual.  He has to scare the living daylights out of his dwindling church members.  The Germans will be rising up and joining up with the "Queen of Sheba" (African blacks) to punish and destroy the sinful people of the British Israelite nations.  Americans, Canadians, British, Australians, and other BI nations will soon be hanging off meathooks as they watch their children being raped and slaughtered in front of them.  What other group of people than Church of God members could dream up and take delight in such a scenarios!

You know what God says? I’m going to have those Gentiles, come up with you in judgment. Now that’s interesting, because we thought the wicked were coming up 100 years later. You’re going to find out, they don’t. Keep listening. They’re going to come up, and I’m going to have the Gentiles tell you, you’re out. Think about it. The Germans, the Assyrians, were the dreaded enemies of Israel. God used them over and over to punish Israel. We’ve been to war with them twice in the last century, and it started thousands of years ago. I’m going to take your worst enemies, because they listened to Me and I’m going to use them.
They’re not the God family. They didn’t come up in the resurrection to eternal life. If they had, they’d have been up 1,000 years earlier. Proof that they’re not in the God family, and God is using them as members of His family to condemn them, is they come up together, after the Millennium. So He’s going to use those physical human beings, who had good attitudes…We’re about to read another one…who had good attitudes to tell them, “You’re thrust out.” Ooh, that will be hard to hear. Talk about weeping and gnashing of teeth…But, brethren, we’re understanding judgment. Let’s read one more, then let’s talk.
“The queen of the south [a black, African Gentile] shall rise up in the judgment with this generation…[Here’s what God thinks of black people, by the way; a little insight here.]…and shall condemn it…[Whoa…Can you imagine?]…for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [God] is here” (Matt. 12:42).
So God takes people, who are so unlikely for us to believe…these Germans, ferocious warriors, the toughest the world’s ever seen…God is going to use them one more time to punish His people. We’ll be hearing that in the month of November. We’ll talk more about that. And this African Queen…coming up together. Obviously, they didn’t go on to eternal life. They didn’t. But they were good people. They listened—and they were Gentiles. How bitter will that be? Now, look if God tells you, you’re out, or if the prophets, or the apostles, or any member of the God family tells you you’re out, that would be bitter enough…but to hear it from your worst enemies? That’s God’s plan. You need to baptize your mind into that thinking.

The best at prophecy since I was 19

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Dave has been a theological genius since he was19 yeas old.   No Church of God leader in the  entire span of humanity's lifetime has ever been as thoroughly trained as he has.  Well, maybe except for Bob Thiel.  But even he is turns into a blubbering theological simpleton at the mere mention of Dave's name!

Dave claims that even though he has been thoroughly trained a the feet of HWA, since he was 19, that the just did not understand things totally.  Thus, his god has had to dream up special revelations for Dave to utter.
But I will never throw a stone at anyone, because I had it wrong, and I surely studied prophecy more than anyone. I’m telling you…I tell you, before God…And I hope Mr. Armstrong can come up and tell you about our discussions of prophecy. I studied it more than anybody. If I’m going to start with an indictment, I’d have to indict myself. It was not God’s time to see it. It was just not God’s time to see it. Now, there are other men who studied prophecy. Nobody studied it like I did. And you could probably understand, God put a passion in me when I was 19 years old—the beginning of my sophomore year. I could pull out papers I did in the fall of 1968, digging, and trying to understand. I’ve talked about that. And I didn’t see it. If you’re programmed a certain way, you’ll see it a certain way.

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