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- 11/22/15--14:01: _Masonic Lodge
- 11/23/15--00:04: _United Church of Go...
- 11/23/15--09:41: _Rod Meredith Whitew...
- 11/24/15--20:09: _Living Church of Go...
- 11/27/15--12:25: _Living Church of Go...
- 11/28/15--10:48: _ Dream Weaver: Why...
- 12/08/15--22:17: _Living Church of Go...
- 12/08/15--22:29: _Rod Meredith: Like ...
- 12/08/15--23:31: _Dibar Apartian: Di...
- 12/10/15--23:53: _Living Church of Go...
- 12/18/15--16:45: _Living Church of Go...
- 12/18/15--17:26: _UCG Still Doesn't K...
- 12/27/15--14:25: _Living Church of Go...
- 12/27/15--14:46: _Vern Mattson On Her...
- 12/27/15--15:05: _David C Pack On A L...
- 12/29/15--18:07: _When Will The Herbe...
- 01/02/16--14:10: _Is LCG Willing To B...
- 01/02/16--15:40: _The Churches of God...
- 01/03/16--12:14: _Lil'Jimmy Meredith ...
- 01/03/16--12:24: _Living Church of Go...
- 11/22/15--14:01: Masonic Lodge
- 11/23/15--09:41: Rod Meredith Whitewashes The Reason He Was Sent To Hawaii.
- 12/10/15--23:53: Living Church of God: Gerald Weston the New Dictator in Chief
- 12/18/15--16:45: Living Church of God Annual Christmas party
- 12/27/15--14:46: Vern Mattson On Herbert Armstrong Committing Incest
- 12/27/15--15:05: David C Pack On A Land Buying Spree As Income Declines
- 12/29/15--18:07: When Will The Herbert Armstrong Gravy Train Ever Be Derailed?
- 01/02/16--14:10: Is LCG Willing To Break The Bank To Get Accreditation?
- 01/02/16--15:40: The Churches of God Enter Their Last Days
- 01/03/16--12:14: Lil'Jimmy Meredith Has Had A Hard Time Loving His Father
United Church of God still struggles to make its self relevant to the world around them. After an outrageously expensive billboard campaign that was an epic failure, the UCG has had three different media blasts in news papers. LCG claims it will be reaching 2.4 million people.
You would have thought the worlds most educated men would have been paying attention to newspaper trends that indicated that readership of hard copy papers is dropping dramatically. But no. Its more fun to waste tithe money on failed projects than it is helping widows, orphans and those disadvantaged in the church or their neighboring communities.The United Church of God will conduct its third and final test of full-page literature advertisements in the coupon sections of U.S. Sunday newspapers on November 1, 2015.
The first two tests (May 17 and August 9, 2015) provided critical cost and cost-per-response data. We expect this additional test will generate conclusive statistical information on conducting a rollout into numerous other cities in 2016. In this latest effort we will test four (4) new ads featuring the following popular Bible study aids: Does God Exist?, What Happens After Death?, Why Does God Allow Suffering? and Are We Living in the Time of the End?
A total circulation of 2,440,000 literature ads will occur in the following 54 cities/counties on Sunday, November 1:
When asked about the results, UCG had this to say:
Their first two attempts never reached their goal. Obviously the brethren were not praying and fasting as hard as they should have been. Jesus Christ has had to delay his coming yet again because no one is ready....the first test gave us reasonable results, but not as good as we desired. The second test was a nice improvement on the first, with CPRs approaching our acceptable range. This third test we pray will build upon that. Then, we can determine the best regions and strategies to use going forward with larger circulation figures.
Here is Rod Meredith's take on his exile to Hawaii by Herbert Armstrong. It was NOT his fault! It was other men who wanted him gone.
It was not so much his rotten attitude or his mistreatment of members, but a bunch of pesky men who wanted him gone.
His god was so angry at all of those men that he has struck them all dead! Only God's most true servant is still alive.
Sometimes he lets human beings go off a little bit like he lets us humanly go off a little bit; even when we're converted we'll make mistakes for a while and then he'll jerk us up and we'll learn lessons from it. I know when I was sent to Hawaii in exile at one point I had to pray to God and literally fasted, twice a week for a while, asking God to deliver me, and about two or three weeks after I started that constant prayer and fasting – I'd already been studying and fasting a lot, but I intensified it – within about two or two and a half weeks a special, uh… [I] forget all the names of it, notarized, uh, he had to sign on it, Special Deliver Letter: Return Receipt Requested was sent me from Mr. Herbert Armstrong – he was kind of in his exile 'cause of his heart trouble, and other men were taking advantage of him and telling him lies – he sent it from me from Tucson telling me to go back to Pasadena and he appointed me to teach certain classes including the finishing class of the young people before they went into the field; the doctrines of the Worldwide Church of God. He said, "I have confidence that you will teach the right thing," and he brought me back and very soon after that put me back on the Council of Elders. Mr. Armstrong KNEW that something was up; God revealed to him what was happening, then he brought me back without even letting them know. I was back on campus before they could stop it; before they could go to him and try to argue with him. He brought me back and I was there before they even knew about it. Several times in my life, brethren, God has rescued me even when it looked like a judgment was wrong for a while, and God allowed me to have a time out there to study, to pray, to examine myself if [I was] that bad; no, I learned certain lessons. I learned to trust in God no matter what. And sometimes you will have to learn trust in God no matter what, but in the end God will deliver you. I've seen several times, without naming names, where some of these men that did that then, and others, were wishing that I was kicked out of the Church, or I was dead. They're all dead. I'm not rejoicing that, I'm just saying that God took care of it; it's kind of interesting how those things work. "He that digs a pit will fall into it." So if you're taken advantage of, if you put your faith and trust in God and you feel you've been wronged, pry it out to God; fast and pray and God will turn it around. But in the meantime you should try to learn every single lesson you can if you're corrected by the ministry. And I did do that, I said, "God, show me whatever." I prayed and beseeched God to help me do better. And I came back and I did do better, not that I'd ever been turned on Mr. Armstrong; never been disloyal I could just tell you that, PERIOD! But I had been too pushy and maybe talked too much in certain ways, and I was more careful, and God helped me learn lessons from that. It was those lessons that are still blazed in my brain; it was good for me, it was good for everyone concerned. But God turned it around – they didn't turn it around – God turned it around in a way that those men could never have foreseen. He will take care of it! God will guide you in the judgment and if God allows a human or a group of humans to make a wrong
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decision, Christ is the head of the Church; HE will turn it around, he will cause it to work out good – you may have to be patient for a while. (From his August 2015 Sermon)
Contrast that to Herbert Armstrong's letter to Rod Meredith while he was exiled to Hawaii.
LETTER FROM HWA TO RCM:
WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD WORLD HEADQUARTERS
PASADENA, CALIFORNIA91123HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG Tucson, March 14, 1980
President and Pastor
Your letters of February 1 and March 7 show, I am sorry to say, that either you still cannot understand WHY the living Head of God's Church, Jesus Christ, had you sent to Hawaii, or you are unwilling to see or admit — and I prefer to believe the former.
There is no point in telling you this letter is written in LOVE for YOU — for you ought to know that without my saying it. But out of love for you, and DESIRE to see you back as PART OF GOD'S TEAM, working in full co-operation and right attitude with the rest o[f] us; I shall take time and space to make it clear once for all this time.
I have tried to hold the mirror up for you to see yourself as others see you. But still you don't see in that mirror the same YOU that others see-or are unwilling — I hope not the latter. But now I must be SURE! I shall speak plainly, candidly. If this letter hurts, I quote from a letter the Apostle Paul sent to brethren at Corinth: "For though I made you angry with a letter, I do not repent... for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance, for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
"For godly sorry worketh repentance to salvation ... but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (II Cor. 7:8-10).
Now I'm going to come with plainness of speech as Paul said — in I Corinthians 2.
To overseas audiences, and to Kings, Emperors, Presidents and Prime Ministers, I simmer down the WAY OF GOD and the WAY OF THE WORLD in two very small words — "GET" and "GIVE." This world is geared to the way of "GET." That is the way of VANITY, SELF-centeredness, coveting, lust and greed, jealousy and envy, rebellion against authority, competition which leads to strife, violence and war. The way of "GIVE" is OUT-flowing LOVE, harmonious co-operation, serving, helping, sharing, giving.
In spiritual PRINCIPLE, the latter is the way of God's Law, the Ten Commandments-the former the way of Satan. I tell them that ALL the Unsolvable problems, troubles and evils in the world are caused by the fact the world lives by the "GET" principle.
Rod, WHY have so many who have worked [with you] said that you rub the fur the wrong way?You are DOCTRINALLY correct, But in II Corinthians Paul says we are not to live by the strict letter of the Law, but by the SPIRIT or obvious INTENT — the basic PRINCIPLE of it (II Cor. 3:6). You are a model of doctrinal correctness according to the LETTER — the strictness of the letter — but you do overlook the SPIRIT from the heart. You won the mile in a state high-school meet, You had know[n,] as Satan injects into us all from childhood, the spirit of competition. You b[e]came a COMPETITOR. In conversion you learned and accepted the strictness of the letter of God's Commandments. You wrote a good booklet on the Ten Commandments. But now I hold the mirror up for you to see in yourself what SO MANY who know you wIll see in you — the SPIRIT of COMPETITION is still there!
You are not going to like this, Rod. Members of your family will resent it. But I am the chosen apostle of Jesus Christ and in His name, I have to say these things to you, for I want to have you with us IN GOD'S KINGDOM — and there will be no contentions — no spirit of competition there! No one is going to be there who strives for himself to take over the CHIEF SEAT!
Jesus Christ through me elevated you to the chief seat (which you had come to me suggesting over the ministry of God's Church in what we then called CAD, you were a harsh task-master over the ministers. You, yourself, find it difficult and perhaps impossible to TAKE what you dished out. Dozens of ministers would testify to that. You rubbed the fur the wrong way! That has been your life-style!
When you were made second Vice President, it became a standing joke among leaders at Pasadena, the saying, "Well, after all, I am the second Vice President."
Jesus said, "And whosoever of you will be chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even th[e] Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister" (Mark 10:44-45). Jesus said further, "Beware of the scribes which wear long robes, ...and [love] the highest seats in the synagogue, and the chief rooms (offices-ranks-positions), at feasts" (Luke 20:46). Rod, am I qualified to call to your attention, these things? I came into the ministry more than fifty years ago, back in Oregon. I was never a member of the Church of God, Seventh Day, headquartered at Stanberry, Missouri. The church of Dugger and Dodd at Salem, W. Virginia, was an off-shoot, and, like Ted's present "church". Ray Cole's, and other's, NOT the true Church of God. However, I never became a member of the Salem offshoot. Half of the Oregon brethren (while all were in Stanberry) had incorporated as a separate church, "The Oregon Conference." I was ordained by them. Twice I was paid by them-about four months at $20 a week, and 15 mon[n]ths later, from February to July, 1933, at $3 per week.
But I did CO-OPERATE with the Stanberry people, from 1927 until ordained by the Oregon Conference, June, 1931-without salary, I co-operated with the Salem people after the start of the present Worldwide Church Of God (then called the Radio Church of God), and WITHOUT RECEIVING FROM THEM A PENNY OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT in any way, from 1934 (after both the World [T]omorrow radio program was going, and The PLAIN TRUTH was being published) until August, 1937. And after that, while building the present Church of God, Philadelphia era, I co-operated at my own expense with the Stanberry (Sardis era) people until October, 1945.
I DID NOT, as Ted claims (he was 5 years old when I ceased the co-operation with them because of the pressure of the Work in the present Church of God). I did not leave them to start something of my own. I continued working with them-GIVING, not getting-at my own exp[e]nse co-operating — GIVING — as long as my time allowed.
But the point I want to make is this: I SERVED — I HELPED — I co-operated. And I did not have or seek any high position. I always considered myself, just as the Sardis ministers did, that I was the LEAST of the ministers-the TAIL-ENDER!
When I conducted the campaign in the Firbute school house (36 seats) in 1933, I stopped receiving even the $3 per week salary from the Oregon Conference.
As the tail-end LEAST of the ministers, Christ started me in that little 36-seat school house, I constantly suffered persecution-first from Stanberry ministers, then again from Salem, W. Va.-ministers, then again from Stanberry. The 19 members we had from that Firbutte campaign was the START of the present Worldwide Church of God. The brethren at the start were my own converts-my own children in the Lord. NEVER in all my ministerial experience, I once sought a higher position.
Jesus Christ gave me the Pastor position at the start. The Church grew, as I held other campaigns in Eugen[e] and in Alvadore. Finally I appointed and ordained two other elders, one a preaching elder and one a local elder, at Eugene, beside two deacons. In those early years of this, our present Church, I served as pastor of a Stanberry church near Jefferson, Oregon. There I appoin[t]ed and ordained two elders, and two deacons — for THEIR church. All the time I "GAVE"— I did not "GET." Before that I had learned how Paul says, in II Corinthians 3:6, that we must obey the SPIRIT or obvious INTENT of the Law, not the letter. I had dedicated my life to "GIVE" and not to "GET." As the Work grew, Christ used me in founding Ambassador College. After their graduation I ordained m[y] son Dick, Raymond Cole, Herman Hoeh, Raymon[d] Mc Nair and his brother. From there you know the history, Your uncle and yourself came along about next, then others. I ne[v]er sought or moved up to a higher rank or office. Jesus Christ raised up the Church through me. I came to the position I hold as the simple result of what the living Head of this Church raised up through me.
But others have sought higher Position. There has been, it seems, NO END of worldly POLITICS at Pasadena Headquarters. As Christ blessed and prospered God's Church and Work, and we came to have better than $100,000,000 of net worth, and a near $80 million a year income, there devel[o]ped a mad scramble for ever higher and higher rank. Sure, I made some mistakes. I naively TRUSTED men like Al Portune, David Antion, my own son, Wayne Cole, many others no longer with us. But now, f[o]r the first time since about 1967, there is HARMONY and a spirit of Co-oper[a]tion at Pasadena. AND I AM DETERMINED TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!
Now back to you.
You have demonstrated, as seen clearly by many others, a spirit of rank-consciousness. In plain language that is coveting higher authority. I do not think you have coveted more money. I do not think more money is what Ted, Al Portune, Dave Antion, Ray Cole, Wayne or others really coveted. They coveted POWER — more authority — like a 15-year old boy coveting the POWER of a steering wheel and a throttle. We have gone through a House CLEANING. We now have PEACE and CO-OPERATION at Pasadena. And eight to ten others on the executive level there have voiced to me their fears and convictions that if you now come back to Pasadena, that PEACE, and HARMONY, and CO-OPERATION will be turned once again into constant contention, irritation, and HARM TO GOD'S WORK! I do not like to tell you this. I haven't mentioned this to all, but to those I mentioned your return, that is the unanimous feeling.
If I have you come back as Dean of the Faculty, several say you would delegate most or the real duties of the Dean, and devote yourself to trying to make yourself the LEADER and boss of the College, and even of the Chur[ch.] You have — and all are aware of it — been possessed with the idea that I will not live much longer, and that YOU are the "FIRST among equals" to take my place.
Rod, in frankest candor, JESUS CHRIST will NEVER put any one at the head of His Work on earth who is competitive, covetous of power and status, and self-righteous. In brutal frankness, you lack the charisma to lead God's work You do not attract-as I said before, you REP[EL-] people. You are a harsh taskmaster over those under you. THAT IS YOUR RECORD!
When I wr[o]te you [
] that a change of ATTITUDE is needed, perhaps I have at last made myself clear.
You have said that you only said a few statements you probably should not have made, but you didn't think you had said enough to warrant this six months' leave of absence. Rod, I'm very well aware of the amount of words you said against Christ's chosen apostle. But Jesus said, "of the abundance of the heart (attitude) the mouth speaketh." What you did say, affirmed to me by two witnesses, was sufficient, coupled with many other things, to show me the [a]ttitude back of those words. You try to c[o]nvince me of how glowingly and how numerous were the times you have shown loyalty by the things you have said "hundreds" or "thousands of times". But in this regard your attitude reflected [
] OMISSION rather than the sparse and sparing things you did say. Ted was leading a conspiracy to destroy my credibility before the ministers and the brethren by saying nothing about me — as if the human leader did not exist — and blowing himself up. Radio and TV programs went under his name-no longer The World [T}omorrow. He even started correspondence under HIS OWN [Letter head] NAME, rather than that of the Church or College. Now I do not want any of our ministers flattering me, or trying to see how often they can mention my name.
But neither do I want it deliberately AVOIDED in both speaking and writing, as if I did not exist. Jesus Christ — NOT MAN — has made me the human leader under Christ. A leader cannot be a leader if all under him IGNORE his very existence. I never did want anyone to go out of his way deliberately to mention me — as you profess to have done. That is not what I mean. But I do not want the other extreme, caused by a competitive feeling, and deliberate non-mention.
Now another thing you cover in your letters. You imply that in what few things you did say, you were FOLLOWING MY ORDERS. Rod, that is hypocrisy. It is not a matter that I CHANGED MY MIND. Let me tell you how it [ac]tually was. When I told you and Raymond, and perhaps another or two, that IF I were no longer among the living, I wanted you to be su[re] Ted did not slip in and take over. At that time, I had heard SO MUCH talk about my dying right away, perhaps started by Ted, that for a while I was overly conscious of it.
It is not that later I changed my mind. But as time went on I began to realize very deeply that God has not prepared ANYONE to take my place. You, Rod, could never take it. I know that is 100% contrary to your own estimate of yourse[l]f. You have a WILL to lead, but not the qualifications. I came to realize that God raise[d] me [from the dead-f]rom total heart failure-in August, 1977, FOR A PURPOSE.
I have felt like the Apostle Paul, when he said earlier in life it would be more profitable for him to depart this life — and in the next split-second of consciousness, be with Christ in the resurrection, but it was more needful that he stay.
I did not CHANGE my mind. I did come to realize, as God caused me to realize, that He had raised me up as His instrument to raise up His present Church and Work — and that Work is not finished. So after my heart had completely stopped, my breath — no pulse — no blood-pressure — by mouth-to-mouth resuscitation I was br[o]ught back. I have not said I now believe God will keep me alive until Christ comes. I have said and I say now again, I do believe He will keep me alive AS LONG AS HE NEEDS ME!
You have taken the attitude that "some one GOT [you]." No one did but your own self.
I have tried here to make clear what I mean by a CHANGE OF ATTITUDE. I sincerely hope you "get the message" this time. Self-pity is not your need. A change of ATTITUDE from "GET" to "GIVE" is! If this letter does not get through to you, I shall not try again. So far you have not admitted a wrong attitude. Your RIGHTEOUSNESS you have maintained! But it has been only so much "filthy rags" to GOD! God said-rather, Christ to His disciples, that he who would seek the top seat should be the SERVANT of all. We should be as a little child.
So far, four months or more of your leave of absence has profited you NOTHING! Rod, in a candor, HAVE YOU EVER REALY REPENTED? To repent means much more than being sorry, or remorseful. It means a CHANGE OF HEART — a CHANGE OF ATTITUDE — a CHANGE FROM "GET" TO "GIVE." From competition, vanity, coveting power and position, to harmonious co-operation. BELIEVE ME, there is PEACE, and HARMONY at Pasadena now. Our men there do not want it disturbed. I have held up the mirror with BRUTAL frankness-in LOVE not only for you but also for GOD'S WORK! The Work is getting along wonderfully well now-without you. It can go on growing and pleasing Jesus Chris[t] an[d] prospering under His blessing WITHOUT YOU.I have written you are not coming back until I am CONVINCED BY THE FRUITS of a real REPENTANCE, and CHANGE OF ATTITUDE. I hope at last I have MADE IT PLAIN.
In deep LOVE as a father to a son,
In Jesus' name.
Some have claimed that HWA was hood winked by Stan Rader and others into writing this letter and did not mean to send Meredith to Hawaii.
If you remember from above, Rod Meredith blames his exile on various men at Pasadena HQ, one of which was Stan Rader.
Aaron Dean weighed in on this in the late 1990's and says that Rod Meredith is not being truthful in his excuses.
That is the letter that was in Mr. Armstrong's files. HWA did talk to not only RCM [Roderick C. Meredith], but others about how he was wrong about Stan [Rader]. Mr. A didn't apologize to people, and had other ways of apologizing—some of which could be misinterpreted. His discussion with Rod about SRR [Stanley R. Rader], I imagine Rod took to be an apology. Of course he wanted to see it this way. To RCM it seemed either he was right or SRR was right. Since SRR turned out to be a 'bad guy' RCM assumed he was vindicated. This helps to justify why he maintains he should be in charge. He never understood the issue was not about him and SRR, but him seeing himself as next in line.It did not change RCM's problem, as you can see from the letter RCM's problems stemmed from well before SRR. The fact that HWA never reappointed RCM to a position of power shows that he knew RCM still had the problem. The COE [Council of Elders] was never a power body, although many seemed to see it as that.RCM took the fact that those he disliked (and it is interesting to note they were always the ones between him and the top) turned out to have problems, so it seemed a vindication of his problem. Mr. Armstrong still felt the same way about RCM up until his death.One thing HWA did say, was that "Rod will be personally loyal to me" (HWA). Of course RCM wanted that same loyalty to himself, never realizing that what HWA really wanted was loyalty to GOD. That is why HWA, amid the confusion of the receivership did appoint RCM over Church Administration in '79.Unfortunately RCM began immediately to try to solidify his position as heir to the church, and had to be removed within the year, and was never reappointed to a high administrative position. It was RCM's own words that caused him to be sent to Hawaii, not anyone else. I pray that he eventually can come to see himself, just as I pray for so many other self appointed leaders.— Aaron Dean
See: What Did Herbert Armstrong Really Think About Rod Meredith
See: March 14, 1980 Letter From Herbert W Armstrong to Roderick C Meredith
All decision in the Living Church of God are done with impartiality. We NEVER favor anyone because of money. Never! Ever!
Given the number of comments on this blog from LCG members who state that this is a COMMON practice of the hierarchy in favoring those with money. The more they donate, the more they get away with. Ultimately the buck stops at Meredith's luncheon plate where most major decisions are made.
Verse 16, "And I commanded your judges… saying, 'Hear the cases between your brethren, and judge righteously between a man and his brother…." Farmer Jones' cows wander over into Farmer Smith's vegetable garden, what do they do? Rather than fight it out, they can't [solve] it, they go to the ministry, and the minister has to help them do it fairly based on God's law; he is to be the leader as it was back at that time. "You shall not show partiality in judgment…" don't favor him who has more money, or acts more important, or acts more tough; you are acting for God. Do it in the fear of God, do it fairly, do it wisely, "You shall hear the small as well as the great; and you shall NOT be afraid in any man's presence, for the judgment is Gods." God will guide the judgment, you are acting for God in this, it's God's government in action. "The case that is too hard, bring it to me, then I will have to judge." Well that's what we used to do with Mr. Armstrong, and that's what we do today; they bring it right up sometimes to me, or sometimes I'll bring it right up, of course, if it's difficult or complicated to our whole Tuesday noon executive lunch with many of the top ministers there every week. Or if it's a major issue we'll bring it clear to the Council of Elders. And we get much advice; in the end I make the decision based on their input. We get multitude of council and the whole Council of Elders helps decide it. And it's decided in that way, not by voting, not by politicking, but by a leader getting advice from other leading men and women about what to do about a situation, and that was God's pattern all the way through
Those fun loving folk over at Living Church of God have come up with one of the most pathetic videos I have ever seen that is supposed to impress the public so much that they might want to join the Living Church of God. Of course this is ONLY if God is calling them to the LCG because no one in their right mind would ever join it otherwise. It's quit obvious that none of the hundreds of splinter groups have ever been able to produce anything of the highest quality like the old Worldwide Church of God did.
Would someone PLEASE give Rod McNair a day job and get him out of the limelight! Pathetically bad! Just wait till you get to Mario Hernandez towards the end. That self serving arrogant fool is still as pompous as he was when he was a student in Pasadena. I feel sorry for any of the Spanish speaking brethren that have to listen to this guy.
This video will NOT attract new members that will want to come with their wallets open. Smearing Christians as pagan worshiping satanists thought out the video is not going to bring any sincere Christians into Meredith's dwindling empire.
My LCG source had this to say:
LCG has produced a new video that will be sent to GOTOs (people interested in the church). Someone should reverse engineer the video from a writing perspective. i.e. RCM isn't in the video, multiple bosses are featured but not named. Notice at the 16 second mark a minister has to tell RCM that it's time to wave at the camera, and RCM seems confused and say, "Oh!"
Maybe someone could play name that boss.
At the 10:06 Rod McNair says, "If God is calling you, you can experience this too." Between the lines he's saying "If God isn't calling you, then never mind, you're going into the Great Tribulation and we'll see ya' in the second resurrection".
Ever since Loma Armstrong had her dream/nightmare that spurred her husband on to start a money making empire, various Church of God wannabe leaders have attempted the same thing. Dreams and visions have produced a plethora of incompetent abusive COG leaders. Just look at the hierarchy of any of the larger COG's today and you sill see what those nightmares have produced.
Using dreams as a tool to legitimize yourself is also another attempt to cover up the fact that these men have no original thoughts in their heads. Everything they do is copied from the actions of Herbert Armstrong. Even though they all live and have churches that exist in the 21'st century, they still rely on a model from the late 19th century work/power ethic. Just like Herbert Armstrong, these men have never held legitimate hard working jobs where they have had to toil with their hands and get dirty and sweat. God forbid if a COG leader ever had to sweat from physical exertion! Basketball maybe, but never physical work. Any how, that's another story.
Today, we have another self-appointed COG leader who is trying to legitimatize his apostate brand of false Christianity. Bob Thiel is back with another poor attempt in trying to prove he is something more than another crazy Californian.
The self-appointed prophet/apostle/chief overseer and world renown expert on the Mayans, writes this about himself, though he uses HWA's own words to discredit himself.
Do dreams and prophets have any place in the Christian Church today? Did any precede the start of the old Radio Church of God? What about the Continuing Church of God (which did not officially form as a declared entity until December 28, 2012)?
The Bible records that God often has used dreams to give messages (Genesis 20:3-7, 28:10-17, 31:10-13, 31:24, 37:5-10, 40:5-18, 41:1-32; Numbers 12:6; Judges 7:13-15; 1 Kings 3:5-15; Daniel 2:3-45, 4:4-27, 7:1-28; Matthew 1:20-25, 2:12, 2:13, 2:19, 2:22; Acts 16:9).
I had a dream prior to the start of the Continuing Church of God, as did someone I did not know who lived in New Zealand.
While some may wish to discount what happened with me, let us also look at something that the late Herbert W. Armstrong wrote about dreams:Let me say here that in about 99,999 times out of 100,000, when people think GOD is speaking to them in a dream or vision in this day and age, it is pure imagination, or some form of self-hypnotism or self-deception. I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Autobiography of Herbert Armstrong, (Volume 1), chapter 10, 1973, p. 194)And that is correct. Most dreams are not from God, even if people think that they are. Notice what the Bible teaches:
7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there is also vanity. But fear God. (Ecclesiastes 5:7)
Most dreams don't come from God but from the minds of delusional self-adsorbed men...except in Thiel's case. Since he is the ONLY legitimate TRUE COG leader on the face of the earth today, his dreams are 100% God inspired. No nightmares for Bob!
Like I said above, Thiel goes on to elaborate how he has patterned his mini-cult after Herbert Armstrong's example. Just because Loma and HWA had dreams, Bob can too!
Loma and Herbert Armstrong were married in 1917. They were specifically told that they would have a work to do. Furthermore, the bright lights in the dream may have had to do with doing a work (cf. Matthew 5:16)–a work that seemed to vanish and return (flash). Thus, there was a dream from God given to a woman in the 20th century that preceded the start of the old Radio Church of God that Herbert W. Armstrong led. The Radio Church of God represented the start of the Philadelphia era and the Philadelphian work–a work that is not finished (cf. Matthew 24:14-15)–and Herbert W. Armstrong claimed that a dream given to his wife was from God, prior to the start of the Philadelphia era.
Since the Philadelphia era was raised up years after that dream, a question to ponder is would God do anything similar to point to the continuation of the end-time COG remnant of the Philadelphians? Consider that in Loma Armstrong’s dream that there were two sets of flashing stars–there were two parts to the dream. Herbert Armstrong is now dead and there was a pause between the work God had him to do and the completion of the final phase of the work to finally fulfill Matthew 24:14 (cf. Isaiah 29:14).
With a few hundred US members and several hundred poor African members, Thiel is set to take his mind-boggling work to the leaders of the world so that the entire earth will hear the message of the kingdom before the end happens.In the past, like in 2013 and 2014, I have called the time between his death and the formation of the Continuing Church of God the transitional phase–which is consistent with Loma Armstrong’s dream. God will cut that final work short (Romans 9:28) which results in the famine of the word (Amos 8:12; ) which is consistent with the vanishing stars in Loma Armstrong’s dream (though there could be other interpretations–we in CCOG are continuing the Philadelphia work and expect to be the ones God will use on earth to help finish it).
Theil thinks his new cult is the fulfillment of the second part of Loma's nightmare:
Thiel's work now surpasses anything Dave Pack, Rod Meredith and Gerald Flurry are doing. Even with all their expensive media campaigns they are poor imitations of the greatness that is Bob Thiel!Notice that the dream was to go until the end of the world and the coming of Jesus–since Herbert Armstrong has been dead since January 16, 1986–if the dream was from God then, does it not make sense that the second half of the dream would be fulfilled by another in the 21st century? We in the Continuing Church of God are fulfilling that second part of stars.
Perhaps it should be mentioned, Herbert Armstrong had more information about what I am referring to as the first set of stars in the dream. He wrote:It was a dazzling spectacle…People by the hundreds came running into this broad intersection looking up to see the strange phenomena … A vast multitude of eyes were upon us… I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Armstrong HW. The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 9th installment. Plain Truth, August 1958, p. 18).Eyes of a vast multitude suggest that the dream was saying that the work to be done was to have a witness to many. This happened with the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God under Herbert Armstrong’s leadership in the 20th century. The second set of stars in the dream, which he did not mention in the August 1958 Plain Truth, article, but did in his published Autobiography, may pertain to what I have called, for years, The Final Phase of the Work. But even if it had applicability to the ministry of Herbert Armstrong only, the dream, which he shortly before his death he confirmed he believed was from God (per Aaron Dean, who I discussed this with on October 30, 2015), shows that one did precede the COG work he was involved in.
Thiel then goes on to express his bitterness he STILL holds against Rod Meredith's rejection and later church wide public humiliation.
Several years ago I had a dream, which while I did not understand it at first, as it became more and more fulfilled over the years, I began to understand it and believe it was from God.
I was 50 at the time (which essentially makes me an ‘old man’ per Numbers 8:25; cf. John 8:57). In my dream, there seemed to be two parallel lines. Living Church of God (LCG) evangelist Roderick Meredith was on the top line and I was on the line much below. In the dream, I kept calling up to Dr. Meredith, but he never would respond. This lack of response made no sense to me during the dream. Then after what seemed to be a long time, the lines-crossed with his line dropping and my line going up.
One reason that I did not understand it at the time was that I was on relatively close speaking terms with Dr. Meredith then (he repeatedly told me he considered me to be his friend, plus he had appointed me an adviser to LCG on matters of doctrine and prophecy), so that aspect of the dream made no sense. Also, since I had no intentions of leaving Living Church of God then (and certainly no plans to start a separate church), it was not clear what the dream was saying. Another reason I was unsure about the dream then was that I had not had any anointing for the Holy Spirit beyond baptism when I had that dream.
But these matters changed eventually. For one, I was unexpectedly anointed for a ‘double-portion’ of God’s Spirit (cf. 2 Kings 2:9) on December 15, 2011 by an LCG minister named Gaylyn Bonjour.
Furthermore, over time, Dr. Meredith became more distant from me, would not keep various promises to me, and ultimately stopped speaking with me. And after I got a letter from him on 12/28/12, it was clear to me that there was no way that the Philadelphia mantle could be with him or any of his leaders. These subsequent events showed me that the dream was being fulfilled.
The fact that Americans are sending this moron money shows how gullible and naive people really are. God never expects this kind of loyalty out of any Christian.
You can read Thiel's entire long winded post here: Dreams, the Radio Church of God and the Continuing Church of God.
Be prepared to be dumbfounded at the sheer arrogance and audacity of Thiel.
As the Living Church of God continues to struggle administratively and financially it has to start cutting back on expenses. Jimmy Meredith can only redecorate so many offices and take so many all expenses paid trips to Hawaii till the money till starts going dry.
Imitating their mother church, the LCG is pulling the same trick that the Worldwide Church of God did decades ago when it had members dress up in Sabbath wear and answer phone calls in their homes. That experiment was a flop like so many others. It's the 21st century and they STILL can't come up with an original idea.
Jimmy Meredith writes:
Then like any good COG leader, Jimmy declares that if the program fails its the fault of the membership. Its success depends entirely upon the membership. No one in Charlotte could ever be held accountable!In an effort to potentially save a substantial amount of this expense, we are exploring the possibility of bringing our call center in-house. However, for this to happen we will need your help! This is an opportunity for Church members to let their lights shine and have a direct “hands on” part in preaching the Gospel. In order for this to be successful, we need many volunteers who are able to work from home and are willing to assist with our peak-volume call-in periods at different times throughout the week.
The success of this project depends on you!
Several years ago Rod Meredith declared that he had never committed a major sin since baptism. Now he declares he cannot make a "huge" mistake. It must be a grand life knowing that you are incapable of ever doing anything wrong or sinning in a big way. That logic is about as sound as being "doubly blessed" and starting your own church.
Sinless Herbert and Loma, the father and mother of us all, apparently were guileless and sinless, till a bunch of sniveling backbiting members entered the scene.
We have brethren right now – and my word doesn't prove it to you – one thing I'm grateful, we have a lot of very human people in the work, but at least the leading ministers overall have been the most dedicated, the most solid, the most loyal men closest to God that I have ever experienced since the earliest days of the Church when just Mr. and Mrs. Armstrong were the father figure and mother figure. Pretty quick after that human nature came in and people were playing games – not horrible, I'm just saying we had a lot of [it], very obvious – now so many of the men like Mr. Ames, and Dr. Winnail, and Mr. Gerald Weston and others have been tested and tried, and tried and tested, and they have been walking with God, they've been put through the mill so to speak, and you have a group of men, that if anything happens to me, that have been tried and tested for DECADES, DECADES in the way of God. Will they make mistakes? YES! Did Mr. Armstrong ever make mistakes? Of course he did; he said many times, he said, "Herbert Armstrong has made HUNDREDS of mistakes." But he said, "God has never allowed me to make a huge mistake to destroy the Work." So he'll let us make little mistakes, but not huge mistakes, and then he'll straighten it out in his time.
Bitter Bob Thiel is lashing out a Rod Meredith once again. Bitter Bob has never gotten off the utter rejection of Rod Meredith. Thiel is constantly having to bring up that rejection over and over again in order to make himself out as a martyr. A martyr that needed an excuse to start his own church.
Bitter Bob also has to trot out Dibar Apartian every once in a while to prop up his self appointed leadership. Bitter Bob is the only Church of God leader that has NEVER been ordained by a COG minister into a ministerial position. Fake double blessings is not an ordination no matter how much Bitter Bob tries to spin it.
Shame on Rod Meredith for ignoring Thiel's demands!
Then Thiel claims that Apartian wanted him to whip the LCG ministry into shape, but nooooooooooooo Meredith ignored him yet again! For shame!Many members in LCG were unaware that Dibar Apartian had issues with LCG’s Tomorrow’s World magazine. He stated it lacked interest, depth, and relevance. In 2007 and 2008, he pushed Dr. Meredith to agree to have articles in it from me as he told me that my articles were what LCG needed. Dr. Meredith agreed, at least at that time. I agreed, but under the proviso that LCG would first fix errors in its booklet on church history. Although LCG, numerous times agreed to do that and told me numerous times that it was working on doing that, it never happened as various ones promised. The reality is that one of the top people did not want the magazine changed and prevented the booklet changes as a reason to not have me submit articles.
Then in his ultimate smack down of Rod Meredith and the LCG, Thiel claims that Apartian told him that the Living Church of God was no longer a godly church.Dibar Apartian frequently used to urge me to try to get the other leaders in LCG to correct doctrinal, prophetic, and literature errors. Although I tried to get him to do more of that himself, he always instructed me to not only do that, but to remind other leaders in Charlotte to keep their promises to fix errors, literature, etc.
I just wanted to write you about Mr. Apartian and what he REALLY felt about LCG and its leaders.
I know that Dibar Apartian expressed serious concern for the LCG brethren, as he made comments about the “true colors” of LCG’s upper leadership would come out after his death-which is exactly what happened.
Mr. Apartian told several LCG members, whom he trusted, that LCG was no longer God’s true Church, and was no longer even a Godly church.
Mr. Apartian was against the “falling away” doctrine, just as John Ogwyn was against it also.
Mr. Apartian also knew that Herbert W. Armstrong was vehemently against Rod Meredith being the human leader of the church. Mr. Apartian always felt uneasy about following Rod Meredith, since he knew HWA’s feelings about that.
Mr. Apartian was also having private meetings, near the end of his life, with ministers of different Church of God groups-one of those ministers, whom Mr. Apartian met with, told me about their meetings in person. Those private meetings were about Mr. Apartian leaving LCG.
However, due to his rapidly failing health and a few other reasons, he stayed with LCG.
He did make it very clear though, that LCG was heading the wrong direction, in terms of doctrine and other major decisions as well.
Mr. Apartian was also very upset about Rod Meredith’s lack of compassion and concern for him, while he was near his death.
Rod Meredith had heard about some of Mr. Apartian’s revealing comments about LCG, and Meredith was not happy.
Therefore, Rod Meredith did not visit much with Mr. Apartian towards the end, and Meredith even discouraged other LCG members from visiting with Mr. Apartian-worried that more negative facts about LCG would “get out.”
I hope this info is helpful-God’s people need to know the truth about LCG and about Rod Meredith
. . .
Mr. Apartian actually said that LCG was no longer a Godly church!
He also said that we would all see LCG’s “true colors” after he died.
He made these statements to several LCG members, but most of them are still working at HQ, so they just keep quiet and don’t say a word.
You would think that the United Church of God knew what their members thought and felt. Apparently not. Its been 10 years now and they still can't figure out how to survey their members correctly, so they are giving it another shot, not that the UCG Big Boys really care what members think. If they did why would they continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every year on wasted campaigns and personal appearance campaigns? That money has been wasted due to its inability to attract new members from the public.
Bill Bradford, as the chairman of the Strategic Planning and Finance Committee (SPFC), led the discussion looking to improve and prepare for the future survey for 2017. The SPFC has consulted with Julie Brown to work through this process. After 10 years of utilizing the same basic survey with occasional edits, it was felt best that we produce a new survey that specifically will meet our needs in serving the brethren, the ministry and the home office employees as we evaluate its input for the major strategic survey in 2017. They will also move up the time schedule to send to the brethren so that the Council will have additional time to review its content before the winter meetings of 2017. The emphasis is serving the brethren. There was much input to the topics they would like to know more about for the future survey.If the Big Boys of UCG really want to serve the brethren why don't they go out and paint the poor members homes, help them repair their cars, buy food for their tables and truly be SERVANTS! Better yet, how about becoming a 100% volunteer ministry instead using tithe money for your own personal interests.
The Most Important QualityMost of God’s people understand the importance of keeping the commandments, the Sabbath, the Holy Days and the health laws of the Bible. They also know the importance of government, tithing, faith and watching for the fulfillment of prophecy. Yet sometimes, in our zeal to obey the laws of God, we can overlook something else that is even more important—the need to develop and exercise Godly Love. We are told in the Scriptures that without Godly Love, we are nothing (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). Here the biblical word for love (agape) refers to an unselfish outgoing concern for others. In 1 Corinthians 13, the Apostle Paul states that Godly Love does not seek its own way; it is calm and not easily provoked, it does not jump to conclusions or assign motives or sit in judgment of others. Instead, Godly Love is gracious and forgiving. It is positive and focuses on what is right and true. It never fails or falters. Godly Love is the most important fruit of God’s Spirit that we must nourish and cultivate if we hope to become like our Father and Elder Brother Jesus Christ because God is love (1 John 4:8). Let’s make that our goal. Let’s ask God to help us learn how to love Him and love others as He does, so we can develop this most important quality of Godly Love.
Have a profitable Sabbath,Douglas S. Winnail
Here is an excerpt from a letter from a former COG member that talks about Herbert Armstrong committing incest with his daughter Dottie.
They found that at this time, Vern Mattson resided in Sun City, AZ., the year being 2010. Upon finding their number, my dad simply called them. Vern Mattson picked up. Dad just told him that he was a member of the Philadelphia Church of God and had been for a few years, raising his children in the Worldwide and in the PCG. Then, he just told him what my mom had heard and could these things be true? And, if they were, our dad's big question was, to Vern Mattson, why didn't someone, somebody in their family come out years ago, and tell the WCG, the truth?
First thing out of Vern Mattson's mouth was that he couldn't believe that there was now an actual college named after Herbert Armstrong in Oklahoma3, and why would they do that? My dad's answer was, starting with Gerald Flurry, right on down, they firmly believed that he (Herbert W. Armstrong) was God's man. Whatever, over the years, that the leaders or members have heard or seen, no way would it or could it be believed! He told him, it's who they are, it's their lives, just like it was ours.
It's what our fathers have taught us and on down the line it goes!! My dad said it was pretty quiet on the other end there, for a bit. Then he heard the words, "Well, it's true. You can believe it."
He said he really had no problem talking about it now, because his wife Dottie [Dorothy], had just recently passed.4 He said it made him angry, sickened them for a long time, because of the thousands of people out there, in the WCG, that really had no idea! He told my dad things that evening, on the phone, that my dad felt responsible to tell me.
Vern Mattson said, over the years, with all that's out there now, on these computers, David Robinson's book, and plenty others written by his top ministers; he said, you got the Ambassador Report, full of documented facts and dates, exposing all the lies, mishandling of money, the incest with his own daughter.5 When I found out what he had done to my wife when she was just a young girl, you see we raised a daughter too, this was his own daughter, scaring and hurting her like that, over and over again, I was going to kill him!
I won't forget her words, years ago, when she asked me, how could a great and loving God go against Himself like that, by calling a man to raise up His "one and only true Church," a man that would hurt his own daughter like that?
To all the fathers out there who have a daughter, your little girl, how would you answer that?
I can tell you how Herbert Armstrong answered that, because of the last thing Vern Mattson told my dad on the phone that day, something he said, he has never forgotten.
His wife, Dottie [Dorothy], told him of an incident that had happened back in the late `30s or so, that he could never ever repeat, but what he could say, was that she was pleading with her father one night, she wanted it to stop. (Herbert Armstrong had her in a hotel room, and her voice was overheard by others, and a person who worked there came knocking on their door, wondering if anything was wrong?) His reply, his answer--the man we so strongly believed in--his answer when my wife, his daughter, his little girl, cried out to him, was:
"God gave you to me and it is my job to teach you. This will help you to be a better wife someday."
So there you are.
The entire letter can be read here on the Exit and Support web site.
Ever since Dave Pack bought property in Wadsworth, Ohio so that he could build the most superfantabulous campus EVER, local Wadsworth residents have had concerns about the cult in their midst.
Dave bought property located between a busy freeway and a big lot store. His plans were to build a miniature version of the Ambassador Campus in Pasadena. Never one to have an original thought in his head, Pack designed his campus to look almost exactly like Pasadena. Or at least he attempted too.
After his epic and well publicized property failure the three COG leaders would be struck dead by his god and that all of their members would jump over to the Restored Church of God with all of their money.
With tens of thousands of people set to swarm upon Wadsworth for the Feast that never happened, Dave set about buying land. He bought large swaths of weed infested land so that Dale Schurter could transform it into a millennial paradise.
Now it seems Dave is buying properties from home owners next his compound.
The following comment was added today to the previous thread Wadsworth Residents Deeply Concerned About David C Pack's Cult Compound.
The RCG continues to thrive in Wadsworth as many in the community are becoming uneasy about their growth and presence. They haven't done much to become part of our town, except to continue to buy more of it. I have never seen an invitation from the church to the community to attend a service. This is extremely odd behavior for a church. They have no community outreach that has been made public, and they have a gated entrance to their property, another unusual situation for a "church".It's interesting to note that they have been buying properties from homeowners along Akron Rd going west into Wadsworth. As they acquire more property and continue to secure themselves behind gates, they are portraying themselves more and more as a cult compound that bears closer scrutiny. -
A quote from the Shining Light blog:
When will the gravy train that Herbert started stop. The train is still running and the ministers are still supporting Herbert who have them the right to travel on this train. The ordinary members are still being ripped off by them and the train is still running. Examine the tithing scriptures in Leviticus brothers. Do you really have an increase or are you just struggling to keep a roof over your head and paying to have an overpriveliged elite dominate you and feed you a lot of selfserving and watered down teaching? Take care of your families and study the word of God yourself Teach your children yourself and don’t hand over your responsibilities to others.
When will the sheeple in all the various harlot daughters of Armstrongism stop feeding these fat cats? Until members stop sending in money to fund these fraudulent ministries the train will continue to roll on.
On the Church of God News site there was an entry on the Living Church of God that had a curious statement about Jim Meredith and how he has now "come to love" his father. I imagine growing up in the Meredith household was not the best of times since it was not a normal family. It surely was difficult living in a house with a sinless authoritarian father who feels he is God's final end time man.
Around 800 people attended LCG’s ‘Winter Weekend’ over the Christmas holidays. The Sabbath service on December 26th was broadcast live.
Jim Meredith introduced the speaker, his father Roderick, remarking, curiously, “I’ve come to love him.”
During his sermon, Roderick Meredith confirmed that Gerald Weston will move to LCG’s HQ in Charlotte, North Carolina, “about next August” to become the church’s “chief operating manager.” He made this decision at a Council of Elders meeting two months ago, but it was not made public at that time.
Gerald Weston moved from Canada to the UK only 5 months ago to become the regional manager for Europe.
(NOTE: I was asked by an LCG member to bump this back up.)
Due to the rapidly declining health of Rod Meredith and the poor health of Rod King, the Living Church of God has added two new presenters to the line up for their World Tomorrow program.
Dr. Meredith has announced that there will be two new presenters for the Tomorrow’s World telecast. The first new presenter will be Mr. Gerald Weston, who will be the third main presenter for the program, along with Mr. Ames and Mr. Smith. The second new presenter will be Mr. Rod McNair, who will function as a guest presenter. Dr. Meredith asks that we please pray for both of these men, that God will continue to guide them and use them.
Meredith has been well known for his practice of nepotism in the LCG HQ hierarchy. In spite of wise counsel from many, Meredith has appointed Jim Meredith, Rod McNair and others to positions none seem qualified for.The addition of these new presenters was prompted by the ill health of Mr. Rod King and the challenges that Dr. Meredith faces as he ages.
Rod McNair apparently lives in the dark ages where everything that happened in life was attributed to Satan or demons. McNair recently claimed that demons inhabit the bodies of the elderly in nursing homes and demanded than an LCG member quit his job working in a nursing home.
Rod McNair recently ordered one of his members to quit their job at a nursing home where they worked helping sickly senior citizens. His reason? Demons. It is his belief that demons often inhabit the elderly.LCG recommends that its members stay away from people with mental illness and now they have added to that, the elderly. Ironic since the average age of an LCG member is about 75 and its leader, Rod Meredith, is 85. According to sources, this member obediently quit their job immediately after being told to. Most professionals understand the importance of giving a notice of resignation out of respect for the employer and to maintain ones reputation in the industry. But not McNair. This member was subsequently accused of being disobedient to God's ministry by not quitting quickly enough once McNair learned that the member worked a two week notice to wrap up their obligations to the company. The member has now been disfellowshipped.
See that story here: Rod McNair Says Elderly Possessed By Demons
Related Rod McNair items of interest:
Why Does Rod Meredith, Rod McNair and Bob League Treat LCG Members With Such Disdain?
How Many Lies Can Rod McNair Speak In 15 Minutes?
Bob League and Rod McNair's Love Letter To Wayward LCG Members
Rod McNair Attempts To Quell Dissension By Tell LCG Members The Rules of Engagement For Disfellowshipment
Why Do So Many LCG Members Cover Up The Spiritual Abuse That LCG Commits Daily?
Rod McNair Dares To Preach About Family Communication While Destroying Families