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Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!

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    There is one true qualifier of a legitimate Church of God prophet and that it is breaking up families.   This has been especially true of all of the latest COG prophets/apostles/church leaders. All latter-day COG prophets have this one thing in common.

    Almost-arrested, but not arrested, Elijah, Amos, Habbakuk Thiel is now in that same category.  He is breaking up families in Africa now.
    With the 2 hours of our meeting in Mulozowa’s home, I touched Many subjects and true repentance. One of the attendees decided the next Day not to go for her baptism. Plus another girl was still young but she wanted to be baptized. I did counseling to  her and she noticed the real meaning of baptism and its importance. Since she was still school girl, she decided to wait and not to be baptized at this moment. This girl is a wonderful girl. Her parents did not want her to keep sabbath while the whole family are keeping Sunday. So they chased her out of their home if she has decided to join Continuing Church of God. But the girl accepted our teachings and moved out of their home simply because she wanted to follow the truth. So this girl is now in Mulozowa’s home. I am still thinking how we can assist this girl and if there is a way how we can assist her to continue with her school will be great.


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    It is always fun watching Church of Gods battle it out amongst themselves over how many souls they can add to their groups. Today in the Church of God we have two self-appointed leaders who think they are doing the best work that has ever been accomplished in Africa. The battle is going on between Almost-arrested, but not-arrested Bob Thiel and Dingy Wade Cox. Both have the same acronym, CCG.

    Thiel claims he is drawing in thousands and thousands of members in Africa to his improperly named "continuing" Church of God, while Wade Cox says he is also bringing thousands in Africa into his improperly named "christian" Churches of God.
    Wade CoxJanuary 13 at 6:32pmWell God has been dealing with the churches in Africa this week and we suspect there will be increases following now in Africa. We had church groups leaving the Armstrong offshoots and asking to be inducted to CCG in East Africa and in Benin in West Africa this last week. So also people in Brazil and elsewhere.
    The fun thing about all of this is that these Africans they are both so desperate to convert are the same people who have jumped from one COG after another and from one Seventh Day Adventist Church after another. Whoever has the money gets the newest converts. Of course, both of the white Bwana's think they are the new saviours of Africa with their own version of the "truth."

    Several years ago Dingy Cox claimed that he had converted 1/2 of the entire African continent into his group. He was widely mocked and proven to be a complete fool. That still has never stopped him as he tries to poach SDA's and other COG groups for followers.

    It is also equally sad that there are probably sincere people who are desperately looking to follow Christ, but they will never find him in either of these two silly personality cults.

    With any luck, these new converts will bankrupt both of these splinter cults. One can only dream.












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    Prophecy is the life blood of many churches.  Without it and their explanation of how soon, shortly and how far the night  is spent edging us ever closer to the Second Coming etc, they would have little drawing power.  Fear and concern for "what's going to happen to me" is a great motivator towards finding a suitable religion that will cover all contingencies. 

    Ever Christian has been told and shown that there are hundreds of prophesies in the Old Testament that point to the first and second coming of Jesus.  This is a core belief and all the proof needed to live lives in anticipation of not having to put up with real living very long.  It won't be long now has been going on a very long time however as we all know, over the past 2000 years.  

    As we all know, the New Testament is the sequel to the Old.  But consider this.  How hard would it be to look BACK into the Old Testament, knowing it's "prophesies" on many topics unrelated to Jesus and write a rather mythical account of Jesus life which would match what the OT already said?  That, of course, would look very much like the OT predicted Jesus when in fact the story of Jesus was written by mining the OT for scriptures to write the story.  It would be very easy to do and actually was what was done.  

    In Matthew's birth narratives of Jesus , Matthew writes A story of Jesus birth circumstances based solely on Old Testament Scriptures.  Matthew's version of Jesus birth in no way matches Luke's story. It is obvious neither read or heard of the other's story when they were inserted into the Gospel's to quell the problem of "We were not born of fornication" circulating about Jesus real birth circumstances.  Matthew made the OT mean what it never meant to write his story of Jesus. No one knew Jesus  real birth circumstances either in time or place, so he wrote one. In doing so it looks like the Old Testament prophesied everything about Jesus long ahead of time. 

    None of the following have anything to do with Jesus nor are they future predictions beyond the lives of those living at the time.  Prophecy is for THEM, not us generally in their lifetime to address their own stresses and fears.  Many OT prophecies failed to come to pass for them as well.  

    1. 1:22-23            the birth of Emmanuel  (It means "God IS with us" 
    2. 2:5-6                the coming of a shepherd from Bethlehem
    3. 2:15                 God’s son being called up out of Egypt
    4. 2:17-18            Rachel’s lamentation for her children
    5. 2:23                 One who shall be called a Nazorean
    For example, #1.    The passage in Isaiah is about a child being born THEN who would be called "God IS with us" meaning the not to worry about the Assyrians wiping them off the map.  Matthew tweeked it by making Emmanuel mean "God with us" which was not the intent of Isaiah's words. Matthew simply used the story to write his own and in doing so makes it look like Jesus was prophesied, and by a virgin at that, again tweeking the text for his own ends. 

    Each one of these OT scriptures did not originally mean anything near what Matthew updated them to mean for his story of Jesus.  Originally the out of Egypt story was about Israel, not Jesus but Matthew had the family fleeing to and from Egypt to escape Herod's murderous rampage against the innocents because it made a great story but not necessarily history.  He needed a Herod story to go after Jesus just as Pharoah went after Moses as a baby.  Luke never heard of such a thing and his version of Jesus family has them going back to Nazareth peacefully after 40 days of ritual purification etc.   

    Simply put, it isprophecy historized and NOT history prophecied. Since the early Christians were a spin off of Judaism, what better way to win them over to Jesus than to show their very scriptures predicted him by using them to write the Jesus story.  This technique, not understood by Western Christians and probably disturbing to them if they did is how we get the idea that the Old Testament propehcied everything in Jesus birth and death , down to his final words (Psalm 22)  , earthquakes, darkness and resurrection.  

    The fact is that no one knew either the actual birth circumstances of Jesus, not the date nor the place, nor the events surrounding it, nor those of his death.  Try harmonizing the two Gospel accounts of Jesus birth and four of Jesus death and see how far you get.   They are not eyewitness accounts. They are cobbled and woven form Old Testament scriptures that originally did not mean what New Testament authors made them mean.  It was a writing style of the times but not literally true.

    Occam's Razor

     "For each accepted explanation of a phenomenon, there may be an extremely large, perhaps even incomprehensible, number of possible and more complex alternatives. Since one can always burden failing explanations with ad hoc hypotheses to prevent them from being falsified, simpler theories are preferable to more complex ones because they are more testable."

    In other words, the most simple explanation is usually the more correct one

    I hope those who find reading longer explanations of interesting topics burdensome will find this to the point.



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    Inside Eyvind, the next project from Ruins' chef-owner Tony Brown 



    A feel good story for the day!

    "The idea of a celebrity chef, I think, is completely ridiculous," Brown says, laughing at the cheffy hashtag #truecooks and the associated (though totally impractical) line of apparel. "That stuff to me is just bullshit. ... Maybe I'm selling myself short, but my job is to cook for people, and they give me money."
    His no-bullshit perspective has been shaped by an unusual journey to this point. Born in Eugene, Oregon, he was raised inside the conservative Worldwide Church of God, described by some as a "doomsday cult," and he left home at 15 (after his family had moved to Spokane). He dropped out of high school a year later, got his GED, started at Spokane Falls Community College and found himself working in kitchens. He later got married and moved to Chicago, where he continued cooking and studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Technology. They had a daughter, moved back home to Spokane and promptly got divorced, Brown says.
    It is always great to read these stories considering the church used to preach from the pulpit that anyone who left the church would never be successful in life.  God would remove his blessing from them and they would be forever punished for their bad decision.

    Read the entire story here:  Inside Eyvind, the next project from Ruins' chef-owner Tony Brown

    More can be found here:

    Chef Tony Brown honors the magical realism of Disney illustrator Eyvind Earle with forthcoming restaurant


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    Church of God News is reporting:

    Public Statement re the Trial of Stephen Allwine a former lay minister of the United Church of God, an International Association

    Posted on Jan 26, 2018 by Peter Eddington, Victor Kubik:

    “The Church strongly follows the biblical command that murder—even the mere thought of murder—is condemned as sin and can never be justified.

    In the coverage of the January 2018 trial of former lay minister Stephen Allwine, some media have included inaccurate comments about the United Church of God, an International Association. They attempt to link Church beliefs regarding divorce to a possible motive for the murder of Amy Allwine.
    Here are the facts about the United Church of God and its beliefs: We highly value Scripture and regard the Bible as the authoritative Word of God. In respect to marriage, the Church positively teaches it involves a lifelong commitment of mutual love, respect and selfless service. Marriage is a Holy covenant that reflects our relationship with Jesus Christ. The Church also strongly follows the biblical command that murder—even the mere thought of murder—is condemned as sin and can never be justified (Matthew 5:21-32). Unlike what some may have insinuated, our ministers are called to be humble servants—as stated in the New Testament: “These pastors must be men of blameless lives because they are God’s ministers. They must not be proud or impatient; they must not be drunkards or fighters or greedy for money” (Titus 1:7, Living Bible).

    The United Church of God is transparent and regards our mission, in part, to be a light to this world (Matthew 5:14). As humans, we are all subject to missing the mark and stand in need of a Savior. We have a glorious Redeemer—our Elder Brother, Jesus Christ—who died for all of us that our sins and shortcomings may be forgiven (Acts 4:12). That selfless act of Jesus results in marvelous reconciliation to God our Father and subsequently in “bringing many sons to glory” (Hebrews 2:10). As the Bible authoritatively and positively declares, it is the fervent desire of God for “everyone to be saved and to understand the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4, New Living Translation).

    The United Church of God is deeply saddened by this tragedy and urges all to pray for the families and those involved.”

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  • 01/27/18--07:50: Point Taken...
  • Concerning Bible Criticism


     Anonymous said...



    Articles like these are the kind that makes it easy for the abusive leaders to convince their members to avoid this site.
    I thought the whole purpose of this blog was to expose Armstrongism and help members trapped and also provide potential members of COGs with information that would help them make an informed decision. Dennis I know you believe the Bible is not what Christians think it is, however if this site is interested in helping those you believe to be trapped in Cogs, articles like these could do the opposite giving the impression this blog is a cover for athiestic views. Imagine someone barely getting the courage to defy their leaders brainwashing, visit this site and this is the first article they see, it could play right into the hands of their leaders claims of this being an anti -God, satanic blog. This blog helped me to see some of the things that were wrong with the Cogs but remember members are cautioned against going on the Internet and how satan will use it to turn them away not just from the church but from God. I think there should be another blog for articles like this( just my opinion). What is the purpose of this site? Who is it suppose to help?? What is it suppose to expose? Now I am in no part bashing this site or anyone for their views I am just asking will things like this really help to open up the eyes of indoctrinated church members or will it reinforce their sometimes abusive leaders analysis of this site and others like it. Articles like the one challenging tithing, exposing the corruption(cough cough private jet),and various other doctrines of the church are the kind that can stimulate critical thinking in the minds of many honest cog followers like they did for me. I believed that was the original aim of this blog correct if I am mistaken. "

    Me says:    Thank you and that was well put.  
    My intentions were probably more personal and part of bringing myself some closure with the whole messy experience.  My thinking was simply to study and learn what it was that Embarrassing College, which when I signed up as a Presbyterian kid at 18 for, thought was a legit seminary like the one I turned down to attend in NY didn't teach me.  I also assumed that others mostly thought the same way about church, sermons and what it was that also could have been taught better and wasn't.  In this I am mistaken and it's ok. 
     I was an idealist when a kid for many reasons I have no doubt sprinkled throughout my writings over the years. I still am for better or worse.  The drama and trauma the Armstrongs and Tkaches inflicted upon me personally as I perceive it and their ultimate destruction of every last congregation I felt , at the time, I sincerely grew, as a pastor was hard on the boy. It's not easy to think what a waste of time that was.  In two years, the Tkach debacle took my last congregation from 450 to 16.  Every other one of the 13 previous, of course, are gone. 
    From the moment I left college to go into the ministry (1972) as "for you Dennis, the sky is the limit" which seemed to me at the time even a very strange comment but was the results of leaked manpower comments which got back to me, it was one damn thing after the next. One damn scandal, move and angry congregants after the next.   I grew to hate my choices long before I began to doubt I had even the right view of scripture and the Bible itself.  I stayed to care for people I cared about with information and encouragement I thought was helpful.  I also, naively so, thought that I could be a part of the churches maturing but the bozos got to be in charge with their authoritarian dictates right to the end.  No Shepherds ever rose very high in "that church" to inspire what any one could see the NT spoke more about than the rituals and judgements of others people were taught to embrace.  Only dictators and ego infested wanna be's got those jobs.  
    I always had a good laugh over the minor fact that I wanted a break from the ministry a few times and knew I could teach for a summer as other ministers did at SEP. I didn't realize I wasn't in the inner circle of those who got invited.   I wanted to teach swimming.  I taught swimming all my teenage years for the Red Cross.  I had all the high swimming teacher credentials. I was a water safety instructor by 18. I taught CPR , First Aid, Automatic External  Defib use,  and Water Safety for the Red Cross as a minister.  But I never could get to SEP to teach swimming.  Ministers who never taught it and probably could not swim taught it!  lol.  I gave up.  I was never in any loops that I perceived.  
    Anyway...
    Banned has not proven to be a place where I can pursue Biblical realities and so I will not continue to do that here.  To those who were more than mildly offended and defensive, I apologize.  Being perceived as one who is out to steal crowns or destroy faith was never the goal.  I had the inaccurate  idea that others thought like I did and would be fascinated with actual Bible origins and issues etc.  Just because we all had a similar WCG experience with prophecy, end time living and financial sacrifice does not mean we would all be drawn to the same conclusions and interests that remedy that for us individually.

    I am not one to spin and spend my time bitching and moaning year after year about my WCG experience. I have my moments when certain topics come up and butttons can be punched of course, but it is not essentially who I am nor the kind of person I wish to be the rest of my life. It was an experience. I chose it, I participated in it and I learned from it though I wish I had gone another direction much earlier in life.  It cost me my marriage, for which I accept responsibility and my sanity at times.  You haven't lived until your boss shows up at a Charter Hospital where I was taking break in deep depression, (for me repressed anger I thought I had no right to express or that the price would be to high to do so)and trying to save my ministry at the same time, and announces he doesn't want to hear anymore about how my only brother, who is blind, deaf and can't speak affected me, and how I spent every Sunday afternoon as a child thru teen going to the State Hospital seeing and smelling the sights and sounds of it all  and how it molded the fixer, caretaker and rescuer in me. All I got was that "we were going to fire you and think you are just here hiding out."  He wasn't even on my list of people I had to approve to let in to see me.  Asshole.....  I had to address several issues of handling stress badly to get myself back to the real Dennis.  WCG could make a nutcase out of anyone that worked for the Armstrongs or Tkaches. 
    Thus..it is what it is. My view is what eats you...eats you, so getting past the drama and trauma of the church is more important to me for a better life now than constant reminders of who did what or how bad it all was. That is waste of good lifetime from my perspective.

    So I will not continue to assume I could be a theologically stimulating break at times while Gary hunts up the information that does help those still stuck to move out and up of the COG trap. This group don't stimulate! lol. 
    I have tried to back out in the past only to show back up again with Biblical topics outside the box.  For all our similarities and our differences, you are my last friends who halfway understand me and the experience.  That's hard to walk away from.  I will not, however, post any more topics outside those which address the purpose of exposing the ridiculous personalities and demands of the splits, splinters and slivers left of WCG.  I promise. 
    My Favorite Dave Pack Quote: 
     

        "I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
    David C. Pack 
      paraphrased:
     

        "I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I  ever go back to posting Biblical Criticism, , I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into accepted theological understanding of the text, , or if I get off into other things that are total  and absolutely true historical realities, Biblical origins and  errancy issues and showing the political agendas of prophets, priests and Apostles in the text,  , because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become en-lightened, I'll remember it, and I'll want you to remember it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
    David C. Pack /Dennis C Diehl

    Best wishes to all on our shared journey out of pious convictions backed by marginal information  :)
    Den
    PS  I find it ironic I find myself walking, biking and driving the same streets, going to the same library, drive the same streets GTA was born on and having to pass the Church where HWA got his start in baptism here in Portland.  The Karma Fairy is messin' with me!  






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    There is one thing that the Church of God has always been good at and that is finding something wrong about everything.  The world is going to hell as depravity takes over. Everything is soooooo evil that the church almost demands that WWIII happened and burn to a crisp all of the evil people outside the church.

    Rarely, if ever, do you see any of the splinter groups celebrate the beauty in the world, the goodness and kindness that flow though human beings, and all of the other amazing and delightful things to celebrate.

    The eyes of the church have been so focused on vengeance, thanks to adhering only to the law, that they totally miss out on the beauty and delightful things that happen when grace and mercy are given precedence.

    That is why every single letter that the Living Church of God sends out is always filled with consistent depressing news or referencing some major trauma or catastrophe.

    The need for many people to have a mighty warrior god ready to strike down all adversaries and depraved people is strong in the church.  So many members feel act like they are wounded martyrs for the truth and they want to see those not following the enlightened way get punished. They have had to suffer for the truth and they are not too happy.

    The only breath of grace, at times, has been Doug Winnail who seems to find goodness in people.  But if you have been paying attention to LCG's website, Winnail has been conspicuously absent in posting since before the Feast.  Ever since Hermann Goering, Rod McNair was brought back to Charlotte, grace and mercy are seldom found.
    I think we all know that our world is in trouble. Stock markets around the world may be up for the time being, people in some countries may have full wallets and purses, but this does not indicate all is well. Precious few people are alive today who remember the “Roaring ’20s” of the last century, but we might do well to remember that those days were followed by the Great Depression and World War II. 
    We are living in a world filled with conflicts, moral degradation, and in our Western World, a lack of awareness of God. God is lampooned at every turn, and those who stand up for morality and godly values are equally despised and put down. Where this is leading, is not good! God will not put up with this depravity forever! “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith” (Galatians 6:7-10). 
    Dear brethren and co-workers, let us work while it is day, for “the night is coming when no one can work” (John 9:4). Jesus referred to His own Work, but if He is living within us, it must surely be a message for us to take to heart. The Work He refers to is “the works of Him who sent Me….” God calls us to do a Work. It is difficult to see in every detail how events will play out, but free speech is under assault, and there is this sobering prediction: “‘Behold, the days are coming,’ says the Lord God, ‘That I will send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, seeking the word of the Lord, but shall not find it’” (Amos 8:11-12). Is this a warning for us? 
    Let us work the Work of God while we have time. And thank you for your prayers and generous support. I look forward to that day when we will stand together before the throne of God and hear the words, “Well done, good and faithful servants!” May that day come quickly! 
    Sincerely, in Christ’s service,

    Gerald E. Weston

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    For Heaven's Gate Podcast Host, Cult Tragedy Hits Close to Home


    Twenty years ago, in 1997, a bizarre story hit the national news: Thirty-nine people had killed themselves by drinking poison in a mansion near San Diego. All 39 were dressed identically and had the same haircuts — and they were all members of the Heaven's Gate cult.
    In their videotaped farewell messages, they insisted their suicides were not a final death; they were simply shedding their earthly bodies in order to meet a UFO they believed was trailing the Hale-Bopp comet— a UFO that would transport them to the kingdom of heaven.
    Their story had a powerful impact on Glynn Washington, host of WNYC's Snap Judgment. "I couldn't stop watching," he says. "I was staring ... because it, in a lot of ways, it felt like that was something that my group could have done."
    When Washington was growing up in Michigan in the 1970s and '80s, his family belonged to a different apocalyptic faith organization called the Worldwide Church of God. Washington recognized a lot of what he saw in that 1997 news story, and now he brings that recognition to Heaven's Gate, his 10-episode podcastabout the cult and its members.

    .......Continue

    And to be continued:






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    I received an email today and a link to Bill Watson's latest sermon on the Church of God International site.  CGI likes to pride its self in how different it is from Mark Armstrong's Intercontinental Church of God.

    It is like it is ripped right out of the WND news rag and Breitbart.  For some reason, several of the COG's think everything that is on the WND site is 100% accurate.  It is not much different that Almost arrested, but not arrested Bob Thiel's rantings.  The world is going to hell and its only hope is following the COGI.

    Many are wondering just what is going on with all the political drama. It seems the mainstream media (MSM) isn’t reporting hardly any of it unless it contains some kind of sexual misconduct or salacious event that often does nothing but distract from the real issues of interest and concern.
    Also, one can’t help but wonder why the FBI continues to investigate Russian collusion with the present administration for over a year now with no actual or substantive proof, yet Uranium One, an unverified dossier paid for by the opposition party with Russian connections, and a pay-for-play money trail leading to the Clinton Foundation, goes unreported by the MSM and is not investigated by the law enforcement agencies. What’s wrong with this picture? What are we missing?


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    "...the time will come when those that wear crosses 
    will persecute those that do not."

    For decades the Worldwide Church of God had many different scenarios wildly disseminated in its ranks by various false prophets like Gerald Waterhouse, Rod Meredith, and Dean Blackwell.  The men invented so many end-time scenarios that none of them could ever keep track of just how things were supposed to be happening.  From the 3-4 hour sermons of mindless drivel by Gerald Waterhouse, the red-faced-vein-popping sermons by of Rod Meredith, and the flailing hands and Bible-waving of Almost-arrested, but not-arrested Bob Thiel, it is a steady diet of end-time persecution scenarios.

    The church loved to trot out Foxe's Book of Martyrs and Hislop's Two Babylons as proof of how things would be.  COG members would be persecuted just like the Waldenses and the people portrayed in the two books above.  From being boiled alive in vats of hot oil to having hooks rip members bodies apart, it was all delicious material to keep the gullible sheep in line.

    Today, we got another dose of fake news from Almost-arrested, but not-arrested Bob Thiel and the intense persecution he is experiencing and will soon experience.

    The bitter self-appointed prophet is all twitterpated over German and Spanish surveillance laws.


    "Germany’s Constitutional Court is reviewing the legality of the government’s surveillance capabilities, after several journalists and rights activists lodged a complaint arguing that the law allows for the “virtually unrestricted” monitoring of foreign reporters. …"
    "Spain’s government has gotten into the business of regulating speech with predictably awful results. An early adopter of Blues Lives Matter-esque policies, Spain went full police state, passing a law making it a crime to show “disrespect” to law enforcement officers."
    So just how does this tie into our Bitter self-appointed prophet?
    "...let me add here that the infamous Spanish Inquisition blocked legitimate speech and involved torture to get sources of information. Now they have laws using legal threats, like fines, in Germany."
    The Spanish Inquisition! Who knew!  And guess who this is all aimed towards....
    Although you might think that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear from surveillance or speech restrictions, consider that many in the governments of the West consider that those not supporting homosexual marriages, etc. are extremist. I also saw someone once on a documentary that stated that people who believed in the millennium could not be trusted and should be considered as potential terrorists. The fact that we in the Continuing Church of Godwould be considered pacifists, does not change the fact that, since we hold to millennial and other biblical views, we can be improperly classified as extremist by government employees with various agendas. Having biblical views are becoming more problematic in the world (see ZH: Germany has killed freedom of speech and expects the rest of the EU to do the same). Canada does not want certain biblical verses to even be quoted (watch Canadian censoring of the Bible).
    Elijah Thiel then says this:
    Furthermore, perhaps I should add that certain Catholic writings support that the time will come when those that wear crosses will persecute those that do not. Actually, that is one of the items covered in our latest video:



    The biggest persecutors of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God will be everyone who wears a cross or god forbid who owns a folk art Guatemalan cross. Granny down the street and the young housewife next door will soon be rampaging in the Quad-Cities of California, seeking to attack Almost arrested, but not arrested Thiel

    SaveSave

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    Trouble has been brewing in some of the extreme sacred name groups as the wander further outside the bounds of reality and into sheer craziness.  It seems there is a growing number who actually believe the earth is a flat disk.  While these former people and the former Armstrongites who joined with them should know better, they have allowed themselves to be swayed by more nutty leaders.

    The Church of God's Chief Pharisee, James Malm, is having to deal with this issue in a big way as his sidekick, Constance, has now jumped over to the flat earth society. Constance has a deeply troubled past with Armstrongism and Wicca. According to family members, she was deeply involved in Wicca for quite some time and then suddenly saw the "light" and jumped into James Malm's personality cult where she immediately became a prophetess, writing articles for Pharisee Malm.  Like most entrenched in the dark side of Armstrongism and its worship of the law, Constance destroyed her relationship with her family, egged on by Malm and others.  When family members tried to intervene, Malm lashed out recently, claiming that Satan was attacking them because they teach "the truth."

    Constance was a writer for Malm's website of deception, The Shining Light, for quite some time.  While he devoted himself to twisting scripture to fit his fanatical devotion to the law, as he waded through the books of the Bible interpreting every scripture, Constance was writing letters and articles as filler for his site.  She got so good at it that Pharisee Malm let many of her articles be posted without editing.  She was his Pharisaical soul mate.

    Recently Pharisee Malm said he had to go in and edit some of Constance's articles. Then the great apostasy happened, she became a flat-earther.

    The Chief Pharisee was so shocked by her actions that he had to make a public statement essentially publicly marking her and disfellowshipping her from the True Church of the Law.

    31 Jan:   It is my very sad duty to inform the brethren that my very dear friend Constance Lynn Belanger has been seduced and has left the faith.  At the beginning of 2017 Constance retired from writing for this site and during the course of that year departed from the faith under the influence of a certain person. 
    Later in the year Constance wrote me with some links and asked me for my opinion on a flat earth.  I thought that this was an honest question and dutifully looked this up and then sent her my opinion.
    She got all upset at my answer and wrote accusing me of treating her like a child and of attacking her.  It was obvious that she had swallowed this and had been trying to get me to accept it as well.  Then when I did not do so, she justified her refusing to look at the evidence and rejecting me, by accusing me of something that had never entered my mind. I had always considered her a beloved friend and I found this quite a shock.
    This kind of cop out is so common in today’s COG’s: when people cannot refute something they do not want to accept; they just accuse the messenger of attacking them and tune out, cleaving to their error.
    Constance had fully swallowed the Flat Earth error [hence my recent post on the subject].  She then chose to disassociate herself from me because I did not agree, taking the view that nothing I say can be believed because I do not accept the “truth” that the earth is flat.
    Then she wrote insisting that I remove “her” articles.
    I responded by reminding her that:
    • She had given me her very rough drafts and told me to do whatever I wanted with them and I had spent endless hours working on them to bring them up to a minimum level for use.  In fact the articles now bear very little resemblance to the first drafts she gave me,
    • Further I had actually paid her several thousand dollars for the articles
    I am not about to trash several thousand dollars paid to her and several hundreds of hours of my own work on something that actually belongs to me,  just to satisfy her fit of pique.
    Constance is now coming out against the “gap theory” of creation week and other issues. 
    The understanding of a gap between the initial creation of the universe and the creation week on the earth did not originate with Herbert Armstrong and has been around for a very long time in the church of God and also in Protestantism.  
    I had wanted to avoid making this public, but the need to inform the brethren of the facts has now become a priority.  Please be aware that Constance is no longer associated with me, that she is a flat earth believer and that she is now teaching contrary to sound doctrine.
    Are there truly any normal people in Armstrongism? Why are people attracted such nuttiness? They spend their lives jumping from one nutty leader to the next, letting themselves get wrapped up in the latest conspiracy theory or outrageous claim.





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    It has always amazed me how the Church of God loves to meddle in its member's lives.  Many churches do this, but the COG movement is extremely good at it.  This week United Church of God struck out at people who have tattoos.  It has always been a hypocritical stance the church has taken considering the number of ministers that have tattoo's, from Garner Ted and on down the food chain. Oh, but these men got their tattoo's when they were unconverted...HA!, not so in many of the cases.  I know evangelists and ministers that got them while still part of WCG.

    United Church of God says:

    We are to reflect God’s thinking and values, and strive to follow His instructions for us carefully and respectfully. “Therefore ‘Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you’” (2 Corinthians 6:17). That is the context of Leviticus 19, “You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy” (Leviticus 19:2). A variety of actions which make one unholy are prohibited in this chapter, such as not revering one’s parents, breaking the Sabbath, idolatry, stealing or dealing falsely, prostituting your daughter, false weights, and making marks or patterns on the skin by pricking it with a needle coated with pigment (tattooing).
    God’s clear intent with the above scriptures in mind is that our bodies should not be marked with tattoos. Statement From the Council of Elders
    When will the Church of God learn to shut up about all the silly nonsense they concern themselves over and actually be "the church?"



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    Anyone with a long history of being a Church of God member surely knows about the "food" that was fostered off on us in the late 60's and early 70's that was carob.  Has there ever been such a vile food substitute as this?  Even turkey bacon was better than the abomination called carob.

    We were told to eat this crap while God's almighty servant, Herbert W Armstrong, was eating real chocolate in his home prepared by his personal chef.  Only the finest chocolate would do! Flown in from Harrod's of London, or bought at the local high-end Jurgenson's Market in Pasadena, it was the best available!

    Can you imagine Herbert Armstrong eating a carob cake with thick carob icing?  What about a steaming hot cup of carob!  We would be in Petra before that ever happened!

    The New Yorker: How Carob Traumatized a Generation

    A wry disgruntlement will forever unite those of us who were children during the height of the nineteen-seventies natural-foods movement. It was a time that we recall not for its principles—yes to organics, no to preservatives—but for its endless assaults on our tender young palates. There was brown rice that scoured our molars as we chewed, shedding gritty flecks of bran. There was watery homemade yogurt that resisted all attempts to mitigate its tartness. And, at the pinnacle of our dietary suffering, worse even than sprout sandwiches or fruit leather or whole-wheat scones, there was carob, the chocolate substitute that never could.
    In the nineteen-seventies, carob infiltrated food co-ops and baking books as if it had been sent on a cointelpro mission to alienate the left’s next generation. “Delicious in brownies, hot drinks, cakes and ‘Confections without Objections,’ ” the 1968 vegan cookbook “Ten Talents” crowed, noting, too, that it was a proven bowel conditioner. “Give carob a try,” Maureen Goldsmith, the author of “The Organic Yenta,” encouraged, but even her endorsement came with a hedge; in the note to her recipe for carob pudding, she confessed that she still snuck out for actual chocolate from time to time—though less and less often! No one under the age of twelve could stand the stuff. Not the candy bars that encased a puck of barely sweetened peanut butter in a thin, waxy brown shell, nor the cookies—whole wheat, honey-sweetened—studded with carob chunks that refused to melt in the mouth, instead caking unpleasantly between the teeth. My mother—who, to her children’s lasting gratitude, never compromised her pie recipes, even during her peak whole-foods years—told me recently that she was never that fond of carob, either.
    See full story here: How Carob Traumatized a Generation


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  • 01/31/18--22:54: The Church of God Prayer


  • How many times have we heard people share horror stories of abuse in the church and then someone pops up and said it never happened that way and if it did then the abused person was somehow culpable.  


    That didn't happen.
    And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
    And if it was, that's not a big deal.
    And if it is, that's not my fault.
    And if it was, I didn't mean it.
    And if I did...
    You deserved it.
    A Narcissist's Prayer

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    UCG has released a statement on the guilty verdict of Stephen Allwine.  Many on Facebook are ripping them to shreds over it.  It seems they are more concerned about the public scrutiny of the news media into the UCG and the potential drop in income that may result.


    [February 12018] Back in late 2016 we reported on a shocking and tragic event in Minnesota. Amy Allwine, wife of Stephen Allwine, was found dead of a gunshot wound in the Allwine’s home. A lengthy and in-depth police investigation ensued and Mr. Allwine was eventually charged with premeditated first-degree murder by a Minnesota Grand Jury. A trial began earlier this month. Because of the sensational nature of the facts surrounding the case, a considerable number of international and national media outlets covered the events leading up to and including the trial.
    Last Wednesday evening, after deliberating a little more than six hours, the Minnesota jury involved in the Amy Allwine murder trial delivered a verdict—finding Stephen Allwine guilty of first degree murder. After now being declared guilty, his formal sentencing is scheduled for Friday morning, February 2. Given the grim details of the terrible death of Amy, we expect media attention to continue for some time.
    At this point it is important to remember that this situation remains profoundly tragic in a highly personal way for many. The justice system has acted and rendered a verdict, which we as a Church respect. But we should remember that this process has been exceptionally hard on the families involved, and also for close friends and extended members of the families. As innocent independent victims of this tragedy they face a difficult and challenging mix of strong emotions—including renewed shock and grief that will last for some time. We need to recognize this. Jesus instructed us that we are to love one another, and now is an especially good time to fulfill that.
    Minnesota law will call for an automatic appeal, so the process will actually continue in some form. It is our fervent hope that all will continue praying to our merciful Father about the entire situation and be compassionate about what the extended families are going through.
    Here is an important point: while we certainly respect the verdict, at the same time we personally are not to sit in judgment. As Jesus Himself instructs us, “Judge not, that you be not judged” (Matthew 7:1). Jesus also tells us that “there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known” (Luke 12:2). We can have confidence that our all-knowing God is aware of all aspects regarding this tragic situation. We need to remember what James, the brother of Jesus, writes to us from a spiritual perspective: “Mercy triumphs over judgment” (James 2:13). As a result, we will not be making speculative comments about the verdict.
    As noted, the details of the murder are terrible. Coupled with the fact that Mr. Allwine was technically a lay (unpaid) minister at the time of Amy’s death, this has made for heightened media coverage—which we expect will continue in some form. Regarding his status, it is important to know that during the police investigation Mr. Allwine publicly admitted to conduct that violated the established ethics policy for ministers of the United Church of God, an International Association. As a result, and given the policy’s zero-tolerance application of that policy, the Council of Elders removed him from the ministry in 2017. While that action has been appropriately taken, I do encourage all of us to continue praying to our almighty God for direction and comfort for all parties.
    It is also important to note that some major media previously and erroneously asserted that the Church’s teachings on marriage and divorce may have been a contributing factor in the case. As we have been told by those who attended the trial, that was not a major focus during the actual proceedings. As a precaution, we did previously publish a public statement correcting this information, which is available on the members website . You are welcome to review and refer to that as needed. We may update it as appropriate.
    Again, because the details of the murder are so graphic we expect a considerable amount of public attention about the verdict—both in the short-term and ongoing in the weeks and even months ahead. This public attention may have certain outcomes, including making things more complicated for the families.
    On a related matter, given that both the United Church of God and the work that we do may come to the attention of the media as a result of this trial and verdict, we humbly ask that you pray that all will serve to ultimately further the will of God, particularly as it concerns what we have been called to do (Romans 12:1). As Paul writes with authority, “We know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:28).
    Amy Allwine’s parents and siblings made this public statement: “We can summon no words to describe life without Amy. We loved her and miss her tremendously. We now turn to the path of privately healing and grieving.” We personally ask that we all join with them and all the families in praying for this healing.
    May the work and mission of God advance urgently in these times of turbulent need. Thank you for your prayers. You remain in ours.

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    The jury just reached a verdict in the Stephen Allwine murder trial.  He was found guilty of 1st-degree premeditated murder in the poisoning and shooting of his wife Amy.

    Stephen Allwine found guilty of killing his wife, staging death as suicide

    The Washington County jury deliberated for about eight hours after getting the case earlier in the day following six days of testimony. 
    Prosecutor Fred Fink, in his closing argument, said evidence showed that Amy Allwine had been drugged with a life-threatening dose of scopolamine before she was shot with a 9-millimeter handgun in a hallway.
    Stephen Allwine moved her body to the bedroom where he tried to disguise her murder as a suicide, Fink said.
    “Physical and scientific evidence don’t lie,” Fink told the jury.
    Fink said evidence showed the victim’s body was “posed,” with no blood spatters on the bedspread or nightstand next to her body and the gun resting on her left elbow even though she was righthanded.  STAR Tribune
    ___________________

    Husband accused of trying to stage wife's death as suicide found guilty of first-degree murder
    Stephen Allwine faces a mandatory life sentence after a jury in Washington County deliberated for eight hours in the 2016 slaying of 43-year-old Amy Allwine.
    Investigators said that Stephen Allwine was having affairs, according to the Star Tribune, and that he searched the dark web in an attempt to find a hit man to kill his wife.
    Stephen Allwine was an elder at the United Church of God, which frowned on divorce.
    "This defendant wanted Amy Allwine out of his life and wanted to be free to play the field," prosecutor Fred Fink said, according to the newspaper. "He planned, prepared for and was absolutely determined to kill her." NYDailyNews

    Stephen Allwine was convicted Wednesday night of first-degree premeditated murder in the killing of Amy Allwine on Nov. 13, 2016. CBSLocal Minnessota
     __________________
     - After six days of testimony, and six hours of deliberations, a Washington County jury has found Stephen Allwine guilty of first-degree murder in the killing of his wife. He’s expected to spend the rest of his life in prison. 
    In closing arguments, prosecutors told the jury Stephen killed Amy because he was an elder in his church, and it would be embarrassing to seek a divorce. Evidence revealed Stephen had carried on at least two affairs with women he met on the cheaters site Ashley Madison. 
    Over six days of testimony, the court room was filled with supporters from the Allwine church, where Stephen was a deacon and church leader.  FOX9
    ___________________
    “We believe the jury did the right thing,” Fink said. “They had a lot of pieces of evidence to go through. … I’ve been doing this 43 years and it’s probably the most complex case I’ve ever tried.”
    The evidence against Allwine included a trail of digital clues that connected him to a failed murder-for-hire plot hatched on the “dark web,” a hidden portion of the internet associated with crime."
    "After a two-month investigation, Stephen Allwine was arrested in March 2017 and charged with Amy Allwine’s murder. Prosecutors alleged that Stephen Allwine was having at least two extramarital affairs. Rather than divorce his wife and jeopardize his position at a local church, he decided to have her killed."Twin Cities Pioneer Express

    I have heard similar reports that United Church of God members were filling the courtroom viewing area in support of Allwine.  Many UCG members have claimed that this court trial is an attack by Satan on God's true church (UCG).  We have all heard that crap before in another court trial!  Many of those in attendance were reported to be quite vocal in their support of Allwine.

    Thankfully a wise jury made a wise decision.

    SaveSave

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    Stephen Allwine was sentenced to life in prison today and received a stinging rebuke from the presiding  Judge.

    But District Judge B. William Ekstrum told Allwine, 44, that he was "incredibly cold and incredibly calculating" before pronouncing the automatic lifelong sentence that comes with a premeditated first-degree murder conviction.
    "My perception is that you are an actor," Ekstrum told Allwine.






    The Star Tribune is reporting that their son, who Stephen deliberately let find his dead mother, has made a statement:

    Amy's sister, Julie Brown, read a victim statement in court that included a comment from the Allwines' son, who was 9 when she was killed.
    "My mom was a good mom. I will always love her and remember her," the boy said.
    Statements also were read by Amy Allwine's brother and on behalf of her parents.
    See:   Allwine, sentenced to life, insists he didn't kill his wife


    Stephen Allwine Sentenced To Life In Prison For Murdering Wife

    Prosecutors successfully argued that Stephen’s motive was to collect his wife’s $700,000 life insurance policy, of which he was the sole benefactor.
    Allwine will be soon transferred to the St. Cloud Prison to serve his term. 

    Amy's family related to the court how they live in fear of Stephen after Amy was killed as her parents reveal how they felt betrayed by him, especially after they let him live with them for two months after Amy's death.

    See: Allwine receives life sentence for killing wife, staging suicide 
    Amy Allwine's family described the terrifying final months of her life in their statements.  
    The summer before her death, Amy Allwine received anonymous emails graphically threatening her family's lives and urging her to kill herself.
    Prosecutors said the FBI contacted the family about the emails at the time.
    A forensic search of Stephen Allwine's computer revealed searches for the names and addresses of his wife's relatives.
    Julie Brown, Amy Allwine's sister, said the FBI warned the threats should be taken seriously.
    Tasks like grocery shopping, Brown said, spurred intense anxiety.
    Brown said her sister "lived in fear every waking moment of the last months of her life." 
    In a written statement, Amy Allwine's parents Chuck and Joanne Zutz said the betrayal they felt as authorities investigated Stephen Allwine amplified their grief.
    Stephen Allwine lived in the Zutz's home for two months after his wife's death, the statement said.



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    God has been working overtime influencing the mind of Michael Noordhoek, aka. Zerubbabel. Not even the other Zerubbabel, Bob Thiel, compares to this guy.  He is a fount of scriptural knowledge that puts James Malm to shame.  Never have we had a latter-day prophet who mooches off of other people as much as Zerub does.  Never has a COG prophet live in such a humble abode, as Zerub does, a one-room shack in the desert that allows him to have relations with his daughter in order to produce a biblical child.

    Check out his Go Fund Me page here: Fundraiser by Michael Noordhoek

    His previous Go Fund Me page only garnered $367.00. The idea that anyone gave him money shows just incredibly gullible COG members are.

    Zerubbabel writes:

    This campaign is the 2nd time that the Most High has sent forth His 2nd anointed Son of His Zechariah chapter 14, verse 4 prophecy to the scattered descendants of Israel to ask you to fill the depository of His house.

    I am asking you to do so in obedience to His word.

    What He has uncovered to us since the 1st time that He caused me to do so has been spectacular.

    Before He sent His servant that He drew out from the waters of Egypt (Moses) before Pharaoh's faces He told him to command every "wife" to "ask" the inhabitants of the land and even those who were of their own house that were going to remain "turned aside" for their gold & their silver & even their clothing.

    This is recorded in the last verse of Exodus chapter 3.

    The 1st exodus was a foreshadow of the exodus out from the captivity of mystery babylon at this time.

    At this time the wife is referring to those that will come out from this captivity in order to be the bride of His word.

    His word clearly tells us that there is going to be a 2nd exodus at this time out from the captivity of mystery babylon.

    One of the most straight forward places that He does so is in Hosea chapter 12, verses 9-10.

    This prophecy tells us the following;

    Hosea 12

    9 I, YEHWEH your Elohiym, brought you out from the land of Egypt YET AGAIN (A 2nd TIME) I WILL MAKE YOU TO DWELL IN TENTS IN THE DAY OF MY APPOINTED TIME.

    10 I have spoken through My prophets AND I WILL MULTIPLY MY REVELATIONS THROUGH SIMILITUDES through the hand of My prophets.

    The day of His appointed time is not only the day of His restored appointed times such as His Sabbaths & His Feasts, it is also the day of the appointed time, dual appointed times & half of an appointed time that "the wife" is fled into the wilderness upon the dual wings of a great eagle per HIs Revelation chapter 12 prophecy to bring forth Mahare Shalawl Koosh Baz per His Isaiah chapter 8 prophecy.

    This man-child has already been conceived in His Isaiah chapter 8 prophetess' womb.



    This Isaiah chapter 8 prophecy tells us that YEHWEH is going to lift his mother & I up with the spoil of the captivity before Mahare knows to cry therefore before he is born.

    Isaiah chapter 66 testifies to this as well, here YEHWEH tells us that He is going to accomplish this before Mahare's cord goes forth from her womb.

    This is simply a reality that is at hand.

    I am "asking" those of you that remain turned aside from living by every word that our Maker has sent forth from His mouth to fill the depository of His house because His word instructs me to do so.

    I am doing so a 2nd time per His revelation chapter 10, verse 11 prophecy.

    And I am "telling" you that if you do not do so and you do not separate yourself to Him to be His shut-up treasure, you are going to be burnt up along with that which He has given you to possess anyway.

    I am telling you this because this is what His word tells us, I suggest that you believe His word in this matter.

    In His "My Messenger" or His Malachi prophecy His word calls you thieves for failing to do so.

    The 1st go fund me campaign that He caused me to send forth only yielded $367 in the 4 months that it was published.

    This was $10 short of His 377 day account of the flood that He sent upon the inhabitants of the world minus the 8 adults that had separated themselves unto Him at that time.

    These $10 parallel the 10 days that His word tells us that those that dwell at His house were going to be in prison, this prison has been the dire financial crisis that we have journeyed in as a result of your stealing from Him.

    This 2nd time is going to be different, He is going to cause you to stop stealing from Him one way or another.

    I say this because on the 8th day of the 12th month (on His restored calendar) the Most High brought forth the fulfillment of the 400 years of His Genesis chapter 15 vision that He gave to His servant Abram.

    This vision is discussed the video that is featured with this campaign that is called "Woe to you when the 8th day = 400 & 430 & 370."

    YEHWEH's fulfillment of these 400 years (along with Him losing His 4 messengers of blood from the great Euphrates River in the process of Him bringing forth Mahare Shalawl Koosh Baz in association with the end of this period of time) tells us that IT IS NOW TIME for those that are separated to Him at His house to be the bride of His word to spoil those of you that choose to remain turned aside from being the bride of His word.

    280 million is 1 million for each day of the appointed time, dual appointed times & half of an appointed time of Him bringing forth Mahare Shalawl Koosh Baz.

    If you want to think that Him holding back letting this loose until now is a result of failed prophecy, therefore use this as an excuse to not obey Him in this matter, this is certainly your choice to do so.

    You will die in your rebellion to Him.

    His word even tells us that you were going to do this, He does so in "These are the Truths" (a.k.a. deuteronomy) chapter 18 when He tells us the following in the last two verses of this chapter;

    BECAUSE YOU WILL SAY IN YOUR HEART; "HOW DO WE KNOW THE WORD THAT THE PROPHET SPEAKS IN YEHWEH’S NAME IS THAT WHICH YEHWEH HAS NOT SPOKEN?

    THE WORD DOES NOT EXIST AND IT HAS NOT COME TO PASS AND IT IS A WORD THAT YEHWEH HAS NOT SPOKEN AND THE PROPHET HAS SPOKEN IN ARROGANCE"

    AND YOU WILL NOT GO OUT FROM YOUR SOJOURNING (FROM YOUR TURNING ASIDE).

    The volume of proofs that He gave to us in the testimony of His word that testify to the fact that He has sent me (including the rest of this "These are the Truths" chapter 18 prophecy) is beyond incredible.

    He has orchestrated this in a way that proves that you do not believe His word if you do not believe that He has sent me...

    ...and His word tells us that all who do not believe His word are going to have your place in the lake that burns with fire & brimstone.

    BELIEVE HIM!



    Please see the following for information:

    Former Church of God Member Claims He Is Zerubbabel





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    Posted on a Yahoo COG group:

    Aaron Dean writes about Rod Meredith and why Herbert Armstrong refused to put him over the church.

    You asked about Rod Meredith. I have a little time so I will answer. It may be a bit long…but a short answer is difficult. 
    RCM always saw things in a vertical line. He set much of the culture of strong control of people lives in the church.  Whether he ever got over his need for power or not I don’t know. God is the judge. I never disliked him, and hoped he would come to see all as team players and not as status in a vertical hierarchy.  I even sent some people to Global when their individual pastors went over the edge early in the 90’s. After that, when UCG started I would ask people “who in your area still keeps the Sabbath and Holy Days” without regard to the corporation. I wanted them to go to a Pastor I felt would help them rather than a corporation. (After all, we are in the salvation business pointing to God, not the corporate business collecting numbers.) 
    Anyway, I always enjoyed HWA discussing the early years of the college. Many of the students were like the early disciples, vying for position.  When HWA decided to have a church administration director in the ’50s, he told me of a considerable argument between Raymond Cole and RCM who both wanted the positions.  HWA said Raymond was more qualified, but he was up in Eugene Oregon pastoring so he put RCM in since he was at the college. (Interesting both these men ended up over their own churches.)  RCM was always concerned with position and always would give everyone his history as credentials for why he should be near the top before HWA’s death…or at the top after his death.  
    Sadly, RCM always did investigation of people who got between him and the top. He smarted when he was made 2nd vice president. (GTA being first)  The two main ones he went after were GTA and SRR.  He was right on both of them as to the problems, but his way of going about it was wrong.  HWA did put him back over Church Admin at the receivership because he said “I know Rod will be loyal to ME.” Interesting the way he said it.  It wasn’t “loyal to God”, but “loyal to me.” 
    He knew RCM was a loyalist and demanded personal loyalty from those under him and gave it upward even when he didn’t like it. Sadly that made him susceptible to flattery. HWA put him back over the ministry because of his vertical nature and personal loyalty since HWA was kept away from Pasadena most of the 70’s – travelling or heart attack – and with the receivership didn’t know where each of the old guard was as information with the ’79 receivership crisis was sketchy and he was in Tucson.  
    I was steward during these years and helped HWA by reading and helping him with his writing and heard a lot about everything as HWA was quite open to those around him, but sort of like Hogan’s heroes Sergeant Shultz “I heard NOTHING”. 🙂  It wasn’t my place to talk so I treated it all as confidential.  
    Within six months of the ’79 receivership and being named in the positon, HWA was getting messages from ministers who were being asked by RCM “Who are you going to follow if HWA dies, me or Stan Rader.”  HWA asked, “What right does he have to even make himself a candidate let alone ask this question of the ministry”. He saw it would be divisive and also the same problem RCM had always had wanting authority.  RCM was sent to Hawaii to hopefuly come to see himself.  After receiving letters justifying himself HWA responding, HWA finally wrote a stong letter to RCM and stated in no uncertain terms that he should he never be over the church. This letter in his big type is on the web. While some accused me of putting this on the web, it was the Tkach administration that did this…people only asked me if it was true.   
    To show what I mean by the vertical thinking, in 1980 when I was made HWA’s aide I was allowed to go to faculty dining.  I seldom did as HWA often left late and I had work.  One day he left early and I decided to go over.  There were 4 or 5 tables of 16 in the room. 15 people were seated with the one end chair open. The other tables were empty.  I didn’t know there was any protocol, and I didn’t want to sit by myself so I sat down at the end. A hush fell over the room and everyone looked directly at RCM. I said “is something wrong”.  After a long pause RCM finally spoke. “Well, that chair was always reserved for HWA, but he hasn’t been here for over a decade.  You have been named HWA’s assistant and Vice President and put on the Council of Elders so I guess that qualifies you to sit in that chair.  Now, the ranking person decides who opens with prayer to start the lunch.”  I replied, “I’m just here to eat, you can decide who prays.”   It was obvious RCM had to somehow justify in his mind how I was qualified to sit in that chair.  To me I was having lunch, and always tried to see everyone as a team – not who was over who. 
    Interesting that later HWA gave RCM another chance as vice chancellor in Big Sandy.  Some issues came up concerning RCM decisions and statements that were brought to HWA’s attention and he decided again that RCM should be removed from influencing students, but HWA saw his health was failing and rather than hurt RCM’s feelings he decided to close the Big Sandy campus (which he announced in 1985 but JWT kept it open after HWA’s death on Jan 16, 1986.) There would be no reason to announce RCM’s removal since with the college closing as it would be a moot point. HWA had told me during his illness that after he died “the church would quit keeping the Sabbath, the income would drop, the foundation and college would close, but the church would go on”. 
    Since JWT was over church administration he was in the hat to be in named as successor. Even HWA knew JWT was the least qualified, but the Council was to decide all doctrine issues instead of one man, to hold the church steady. Of course JWT took ownership of all this a bit later (with SRR’s help interestingly – remember SRR made sort of a hero of JWT in his book). He did this after I was removed from the Council and JWT had the men on the Council sign away their control – something I would not have done and others should not have – but we were hierarchical and it happened. 
    A few months before Global started RCM took my wife and me to dinner. Even though later he said Global just started somewhat spontaneously, he already had members and a budget when we had dinner. Since I had faithfully served HWA, he wanted me to join him (as have others – I felt like David’s last wife whom Adonijah asked Solomon through Bathsheba to be his wife – as a billboard as if my being with them as their aid somehow made them the credible successor to HWA).  I told RCM it was premature and that he was pushing to be put out so he could start a church and be in charge. I reminded him of HWA’s letter to him. (Also HWA had made me promise to not follow RCM as he knew Rod would try to get in charge – why he decided to name someone instead of letting the Council of Elders decide. HWA said “Raymond and Dibar and….and named all those who did go with RCM and said “they might vote him in”, and “Rod should never be in charge of the church”.  A vocal repetition of his letter 6 years before. So HWA decided to name someone… and that changed several time the last few moths of his life.) 
    Shortly after Global started WCG did start pushing the heresy but it was not so blatant or public before Global started and many thought JWT might stand up to Joe Jr and Mike Feazel as they were the ones changing things, not JWT.  
    JWT and RCM had a history and very much disliked each other and RCM could not stand being under JWT who he saw as a nobody. HWA’s naming Tkach fueled what was already a very strained relationship.  After Globel started, Jr. and Feazel decided to push the heresy in WCG more directly and  pastors got pushed at different times, often depending on their individual regional pastor’s agreeing or disagreeing with heresy.  When it became blatant is when UCG formed, and men had already worked under RCM and didn’t want his form of control so they chose to start over since God had not placed one man in control.  To me it was a time when God was seeing who had chosen Christ as their king and not a man – although still willing to be under authority – just not absolute authority of a man. 
    It was sad that Global split when RCM felt he wasn’t in charge.  That is another sad commentary (although all groups have some sad events).  When Denny Luker took some UCG office staff to visit Living it was interesting that RCM asked each person their job and “you should sit with him, and you with him…” all very much in the hierarchical style of his past. 
    I do believe RCM may have softened somewhat in the “who is in charge” mentality as he saw he would not be alive till Christ returned – so it would no longer be him.  However I found it interesting in a letter in his last year he resold himself as God’s appointed and stated “I knew Mr Armstrong better than any man alive today”.  I had people jokingly asked if I was still alive since I was with him most of the last 12 years of his life and on a 365 days a year basis the last 5 years before his death.  RCM had very little contact during those 12 years and exaggerated his personal contact as HWA was close to many of the early graduates. 
    I never disliked RCM (or anyone for that matter as I learned both good and bad from everyone) but I did know his peculiarities and his need for power, and hope he did come to a more humble position before his death. He was not alone in his desire to be in charge.  A number have started their own churches and even those who left UCG in the splits wanted power for themselves, and when they lost it, their lack of humility showed and they started their own groups to continue in power.   
    It is not unusual for men to use their own talent or stories to be in charge.  Korah was with “men of renown, 250 princes of Israel” and the next day they accused Moses of killing their friends…they didn’t say “thank you for getting rid of those evil people.”   Absalom was well spoke, the most beautiful eloquent man in the kingdom. He stood at the gate and blogged “If I were only king I would give justice…” and stole the hearts of Israel from David – who slew Goliath and was anointed by Samuel.  John the Apostle wrote of “Diotrephes who seeks preeminence” and was able to throw out 
    So this history is 2000 years old as God sorts out who is his.  Interesting that HWA said “The next thing is God purifying the bride”.  I believe he was right.  Everyone has had to choose what they believe and who they will follow. We will each be judged individually by God for our choices of belief of what his word says. May He show mercy on all of us.


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  • 02/03/18--17:33: I'm not posting this......
  • ....to challenge your faith or steal your crown.  I'm not posting this to convince you of evolution.  I'm not posting this to give you a chance to make inane comments about Aron Ra's hair  in the same way Dave Pack dismissed Einstein because he "had wild hair."  (Idiot)   I clearly appreciate Aron's understanding of the topic compared to Dave Pack's ignorance of it.

    I post this as an example of how badly Dave defends his views when he is clearly out of his league. I simply enjoy the takedown of Dave, over and over , as one who knows nothing about the topic of Evolution yet pretends he does with his bombast and authoritarian presentation.  Over and over Aron proves Dave a liar whose sources are bogus and his conclusions ridiculous.  Dave is out of his league here and needs to be exposed as such.

    I'd debate Dave Pack on the Bible in a heart beat but still waiting..........................

    Dave is also out of his league in his understanding of the Bible.  Dave is not "brilliant" as some declare.  Dave is clever and at times not much that either.

    Dave is so out of date on everything including theology and higher criticism issues of all things Biblical he cries out at one point "Poppy Cock!"  LOL....   I heard HWA utter that rebuttal to something he also did not understand and Dave has HWA stuck in his head.  I have only ever heard HWA and now Dave Pack use the term to dismiss what is evidently true.

    So if you, who are Christians get offended at me posting this most enjoyable take down of David C Pack, Fake Minister and Fake Theologian, you'll simply have to forgive me...

    Those who wish to learn more in 30 minutes than in the last 30 years in Church and see how easily Dave Pack is taken apart topic by topic and boast by boast
    enjoy...

    Dave is equally ignorant of the Bible he claims to see himself as spoken of by the Prophets in as well.



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