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- 09/12/17--22:32: _Could It Be Mental ...
- 09/13/17--11:43: _PCG: What A Woman ...
- 09/13/17--11:59: _Dave Pack Not On Go...
- 09/13/17--21:06: _Dave Pack planning ...
- 09/14/17--21:38: _Dave Pack: Mega Mi...
- 09/14/17--23:16: _Living Church of Go...
- 09/15/17--13:33: _Dave Pack: Dale Sc...
- 09/15/17--22:28: _Dave Pack: I am af...
- 09/16/17--13:50: _John Rittenbaugh on...
- 09/16/17--20:48: _Church of God In Wa...
- 09/18/17--12:46: _Living University -...
- 09/19/17--00:15: _Dave Pack: “Everyon...
- 09/19/17--10:52: _Living Church of Go...
- 09/20/17--23:53: _Philadelphia Church...
- 09/21/17--11:27: _United Church of Go...
- 09/21/17--21:10: _Taking The Apostle ...
- 09/22/17--12:45: _Are COG Members Bei...
- 09/23/17--00:04: _After Leaving PCG, ...
- 09/23/17--17:46: _Fake COG Prophet St...
- 09/24/17--06:05: _Everyone is a blasp...
- 09/12/17--22:32: Could It Be Mental Illness After All?
- 09/13/17--11:43: PCG: What A Woman Wants
- 09/13/17--11:59: Dave Pack Not On Good Terms With Wadsworth Residents
- 09/14/17--23:16: Living Church of God: Our Faith Is Real, Everyone Elses Is Not
- 09/15/17--13:33: Dave Pack: Dale Schurter Is Back Doing My Bidding
- 09/15/17--22:28: Dave Pack: I am after as many eyeballs as possible on my products
- 09/16/17--13:50: John Rittenbaugh on Prophets
- 09/16/17--20:48: Church of God In Wales On The Importance Of Apostles
- 09/18/17--12:46: Living University - The Thorn In Many LCG Members Sides
- 09/19/17--10:52: Living Church of God: Is Gerald Weston the New Peter?
- 09/20/17--23:53: Philadelphia Church of God: The key of David isn’t a message!
- 09/21/17--11:27: United Church of God: Still Conning Members With Tithe of the Tithe
- 09/21/17--21:10: Taking The Apostle Dave Pack to the Woodshed
- 09/23/17--17:46: Fake COG Prophet Still Cannot Get Any Respect
- On August 26, 2012, LCG Evangelist Dr. D. Winnail told Bob Thiel, “We all think that you might be a prophet.” In order in order to determine who “We all” was, on September 7, 2012, I asked if this was a reference to all three of the LCG Charlotte-based evangelists and Dr. Winnail concurred.
- On January 7, 2013, Dr. Douglas Winnail sent me an email, which included the statement, “we made comments to you that “you may be a prophet.””
- 09/24/17--06:05: Everyone is a blasphemer, except for me
After that, I returned to Ambassador for my last year and was reading the LA Times in the lounge before breakfast. My eye fell on a small article about a woman in a small town in Idaho who was found sitting in her car on a mountain top waiting for Jesus to return. I knew the name. They found the baby dead in the backseat. Or should I say, still dead.
It was my first wake up call to the dangers of missing the symptoms of delusional thinking with religious content. There was nothing spiritually wrong with the woman. She was clearly mentally ill and no one was smart enough to spot it before it was too late.
Moving right along...
From the Bible we find a man once laid on his right side for 390 straight days and then flipped over for another 40 because the voice in his head told him to. He drew Jerusalem on clay and lay siege to it with an iron pot (Ez. 4). He even cooked his food with human waste or was told to but begged off that. Some think he was to mix it with his food as human dung does not burn. (Ez. 4:9) and dug a hole in his own home and squeezed himself through it with his possessions on his back (Ez. 12).
His name was Ezekiel. Maybe he was traumatized by the captivity or the destruction of the symbol of all that was holy and stable to him, the temple. He died forever ago and lots of the stuff he said was going to happen never really did far as we can tell. I hear a lot of minister types quoting him 2500 years later as if you can read the news and immediately see what Ezekiel was talking about.
I know most will say that God told him to do these things….but think about what you are saying. Would you say that about Andrea Yates who God told to drown her kids , The Son of Sam or Mijailo Mijailovic who killed the Swedish Foreign Minister, Anna Lindh, saying when asked who told him to do it, "I think it was Jesus. That he has chosen me”?
It all started with Moses running across a burning bush through which he was quite sure he could hear the voice of God talking to him.
There was a prophet (was he given a double portion of the spirit to fight a cold?) who married a prostitute because the voice told him to. We had to drop the standard laws of marriage for this one, but its ok if you are doing it for God. Man was his wife mad about that! The guy even began to think he was a reincarnated form of the guy before him who talked to the bush. Tons of people obeyed this guy for a time, but usually not for very long. Hosea I think.
The more I think about it, the more I have to admit that voices in the heads of people I never met, and no one at that time could hear themselves, have played a really big role in who gets the final say in religion. When you think of it, those of the Christian faith think nothing of believing whatever those thousands of years before are recorded to have heard broadcast inside their heads as being from God. How could one ever know what really happened or even if it did, but to question following what they are said to have seen or said or been told to do comes easily for most who never think about what they are actually believing and doing.
Paul went on to write most of the New Testament and continue to tell people nothing about any real Jesus he had ever met. No stories, no miracles, no teachings, nothing about the 12 men Jesus had to follow him, and I would expect to have passed the teachings on to others. Maybe even write something about Jesus, after all there were 12 of them! But alas, they didn’t much and we have no clue what happened to them save made up "traditions". It’s all hearsay. Some say that they were merely a symbol of the twelve signs of the zodiac surrounding the central sun/son, and not real people, but let’s not go there.
Jesus kind of blew them off in a way that would have got me slapped by my dad for being so rude to mom. It was like he didn’t know them. Mary had evidently completely forgotten about his wonderful birth story and all those great things she kept and pondered in her heart. Besides he had to do what the voice in his head said.
Later, other writers who wrote about Jesus dropped this hot little tale and told a really cute story about how Jesus came to be. God himself had visited her, well no, I guess the Holy Spirit did. You know the third thing in the Trinity and she was pregnant by no less than the Deity. She burst into song about this in Luke and seemed to know that Jesus was literally “fully God and fully man”, whatever that means. I can understand one thing being fully something, but not two things being fully the same thing but different and coequal but not. Church talk. I guess it’s one of those mysteries we hear about when one story leads to the next and we tie ourselves in a knot, wrapped in a enigma and all that.
Matthew tells a great story of Jesus birth, different from Luke’s, but at least they cleaned up that embarrassing tale about Jesus being hauled away by his family for being insane. Mark must have been mistaken according to Matthew and Luke, but Mark was the embarrassing story and came before the cute story, I suspect it had a ring of truth to it, at least as local rumor had it.
Sometimes I wonder if Jesus was so anxiety ridden not to know who his real father was ("we were not born of fornication") that he took mom literal when she got tired of him asking and said “God is your father. Now wash up for dinner” Who knows?
As long as we are on the topic... I always found it interesting that the poor seizing child in the New Testament who threw himself in both the fire and water often, or maybe just fell in them when this hit him, cried out, foamed at the mouth and then recovered pretty quickly when the demon was put out, had all the symptoms of infantile epilepsy. Every one!
No one knew what that was back then anymore than any other mental illness or even the concept of mental illness. Up through the Middle Ages beyond, the Church labeled everything either of God or of the Devil. You could lose your head or go up in flames over having the wrong answer. I wonder how people back then would treat a kid with epilepsy! It runs its course in about 30 minutes so it would sure appear that the old demon was banished but I bet it returned and could easily be prevented with one taking their Dilantin. It has also been found that Canabis Oil can drive out a seizing demon.
Jesus had a hard time doing this stuff in his hometown because a prophet has no honor in his own town or with his own family. They know you pretty darn well and got so concerned they came down to retrieve you for your own good, if you believe Mark. Of course he blamed the weak faith of the group, but maybe that’s because they all know you so well and aren’t easily convinced. I mean, if Jesus was God, really, really, really GOD, would the force be thwarted just because the neighbors who knew you as a kid had a hard time accepting that? I think not! Since when does being God in the flesh depend on the acceptance of the people who know you best?
Jesus also got rid of a whole legion of demons in a man that lived in a cemetery, naked breaking out of the chains used to bind him. Chains were the medication of that time. Anyway, aside from this man having every symptom of schizophrenia, or at best, severe mental illness, all the demons in him were cast into a herd of pigs and they ran down into the sea from a town no where near the sea and drown. Kind of a marathon run and by the time they got there, they’d be skinny and pooped out pigs. Bible geography gone bad.
Some historians say the story of the swine was really the true story of Titus driving the Jews in to the Sea of Galilee in a campaign against them and sending his men into the water to spear them, thus becoming "fishers of men." I don't know...
Anyway….What about the author of Revelation? . Whoa…those were some good drugs! Whoever wrote that was one angry human being and hated both the Apostle Paul (the false Apostle the Ephesians called out) and the gentiles. Death, destruction, fire, plagues, trombones, vials and all sorts of stuff pour out on everyone! This Jesus is not such a nice guy. The one in the Gospels can’t possibly be the same one as in Revelation, but that’s what they say. The one in Revelation seems like an end stage psychopath gone amuck. I’m not sure I could be comfy in heaven or the kingdom with one who could be so freaking mean to everyone except those special ones. I always felt a few seminars or maybe a refresher type program would send a kinder gentler message, instead of all the butt kicking, death and destruction. Maybe a nice lunch between encouraging sessions and a Luau in the evening where we could all marvel at actually meeting the real God and Jesus. And hey…if the presenter is really God or Jesus come down…I mean really really…I’d listen and be good. But alas, this Jesus in Revelation is a case…maybe literally. It’s just one big vision in someone’s head hearing voices again that others can’t hear and seeing things others don’t see. Yet, good folk eat it up and read as if they also hear the same voice in their head.
Someone once asked what’s the difference between a Bible Prophet or Christian fundamentalist and a paranoid schizophrenic? Well, one hears voices in their head, has a heightened moral code, is judgmental yet can be very deceptive and manipulative, has delusions of being on a mission from God, sees things that no one else present sees, hears things that one else hears, sees lights in his head, is the center of the universe and has special knowledge that must be kept secret until the right time an then can only be understood as explained by the one. The other, of course, is a paranoid schizophrenic.
I had a close friend in high school who in college came down with the classic symptoms of schizophrenia. Very intelligent but all of a sudden was overcome with the chemistry of schizophrenia that comes mostly between 18 and 35. He simply could not function in this world. His perceptions and his reality were far different than even he could understand. He died in his chair, alone in a dingy apartment. I wish I had gone to see him. I suspect he took his life but no one will talk about it. His sister took her life a few years later. She was living unknown to me in SC and I wish I had been able to go see her. Something ran in the family.
What if those strange but dedicated characters spoken of in scripture , or alive today seeing themselves as the reincarnation of these prophets and kings are simply mentally ill? When these modern day prophets and dreamers tell us what their God tells them or shows them, how can anyone trust that? Why would you? How could you?
We know more now than we did 3000 years ago. And yet when it comes to the Bible and those who declare themselves the special men of God, we go as blind as Paul claimed to go on the road to Damascus. (Even though Paul himself never says this was the mechanism of his conversion. Perhaps even worse, like Jeremiah and Jesus, he was called before birth in the womb as he notes in Galatians.) Pretty darn special! And yet we can allow that kind of perspective to be religious when today, we would get very uncomfortable with a real person saying that about themselves.
What seems ok as long as it is in the distant past becomes freaky if in the present. Many who turned away from Paul or an Ezekiel may have had that gut level discomfort. I doubt anyone today would feel a religious zealot who cooked dinner with or in his own dung would be anything but twelve short of a dozen.
Why is this an issue? Because a minister, maybe sincere, and maybe simply mentally unstable or delusional can hide in the ministry much better than he can hide at IBM. A minister that is prolific, charismatic while also dictatorial and delusional looks spiritual and obedient. The quirkiness is mistaken for spirituality and obedience to God.
They have the ability to be deceivingly compassionate one minute and intensely angry at anything and everyone the next. They don’t like to be contradicted, corrected nor have their mental processes questioned. They NEVER take personality tests! How is it that normal human beings, who have accurate perceptions about the mental instability of some at work, then lose that instinct at church? The quirkiness at work becomes the spiritually desirable trait in church! Go figure!
When Alexander Haig declared himself in charge of the government after the Reagan shooting, he was torn to shreds for his misstep and is still trying to explain it. But when a pastor type declares himself a “Watcher” or an “Apostle” or a Prophet or incredibly more special than the average human, it gets swallowed hook, line and sinker?
What if the behaviors recorded thousands of years ago that has been the basis for so much religious zealotry is simply better understood in the context of mental illness? We always say if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and swims like a duck, there is a good chance we may be dealing with a duck. When it comes to religion however we change our perceptions. If it walks like a narcissist, if it talks l schizophrenic and if it has all the symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy, it must be a man of God!
We need to be both compassionate towards the mentally ill and vigilant in spotting it in the delusional type leaders that have arisen from the implosion of the Worldwide Church of God. Mental illness in religion can take you far.
It is always interesting watching the wet behind the ears "men" in the various COG's determine what they think women need and feel. Most of the men doing this already have problems in their own marriages and write these articles because they feel their spouses are not respecting them as they should. This message started with Herbert Armstrong and Loma and is carried on to this day by weak impotent little men.
Philadelphia Church of God's Joel Hilliker writes:
The Basic Needs of a Man
The Basic Needs of a Woman
All of these little things are adding to bigger problems for Dave Pack in Wadsworth. Once he really pisses off the resident's, things will get worse for him. He will then start screaming "persecution" just like Thiel and others do.
What a beautiful day! One and three-quarter inches of rain last night. Wonderful! We needed it! And the campus looks green. I didn’t realize until last summer…I’d never heard this before, but we water the grass on a regular basis here…for years…with irrigation. The water comes from our wells and lakes and so forth, but when you…when you use…or I guess, even some city water, I’m not sure if we do that at all…somehow it’s not the same. It doesn’t leave the lawn looking as green as water sent from God from the north, straight up.It’s a strange thing. We don’t get any more water from the sky than we put on it ourselves on a regular basis, but it will get huge brown stripes in areas when it’s water from the city or even from a well than it will…than what it gets if it’s natural rain water. It’s a strange thing. So we can keep it alive and somewhat green, but I am thrilled when I see the rain from the sky, from God. It’s just a funny thing.As a matter of fact, when we use our irrigation and when there’s been droughts, it’s caused attitudes in the city, because people believe that the city is giving us our water, which would not only cost us money, but it would cause problems in the city…as it does. They think that, “Well, the city says, let them get water, but everything else gets brown,” and that’s not true. But the rumor is out there that the City has cut a special deal with us. That we are drought-free when other areas turn brown, and that’s not true.
The most superfantabulous Church of God in human history is planning on expanding into an earth shattering global encompassing religious empire that will be the topic of conversation for the ENTIRE world, even though 99.99999999999999999% of humanity has never heard of the Restored Church of God. Dave expects his "Drudge" style sight to draw in millions and millions of people around the world discussing his utterances.
We are looking at triangulating, from three different perspectives, maybe very soon all three places in place. This is a different discussion for later with more detail, but three different ways the Work will go forward.Number 1: Massive Internet presence. It appears that the funds to do that are going to be here—more than I ever dreamed.But on top of that, it looks like we may be going back into television, which five years…I’m not certain. We’re really going to be sure, but it looks like the funds to do that, and I mean worldwide, are going to be in place as long as it’s the right thing to do, and it could work synergistically with this massive Internet presence instead of replacing it, as we did five years ago, and finding out it wasn’t effective in a big way, because it stood pretty much alone.And we couldn’t afford to do both while we were biting off building this building…But it caused us to have to pull back over four years ago. Now we can do both.But there’s something else we can do. The third thing we can do. We may start a third website, or it’d be another website…actually a fourth website, but it would be the third element, here, where on a daily basis or very close to daily, we would be posting something new. We want to get into the world conversation in a bigger way. The news cycle of this world is way beyond what it was under Mr. Armstrong when people got monthly magazines. Well, we’re bi-monthly. Semi-monthly wouldn’t even be fast enough, but we’re bi-monthly, and it takes 500 man hours to produce a single Real Truthmagazine. So I’m willing to do that, if that’s the right thing to do, but if it’s not, I’d abandon it in two seconds. It was never used by any servant of God prior to Mr. Armstrong.I’m not saying we’re going to abandon it. We’re not planning to, but those hours…building a kind of a Drudge-like site where we’re posting things on a daily basis in this fast news cycle. News cycle—if you go longer than about two days, you get out of the cycle. People are reading stuff right out of the palm of their hand, and we’ve got to get into that conversation. And if that happens, with two other powerful entities triangulating our commission, we could get very big fast as long as there’s quality stuff—doesn’t have to be long, but quality stuff coming every day. Written material, linking to other things we have so people get something new all the time, and all three of those linking to one another.When you consider we’re the world’s largest religious publishing operation…ever…standing behind all of that, then you can see how rapidly this could grow large. Now I’ll just say to all of God’s people, you know, don’t pull back now. We’re moving ahead based on some just fascinating things that we are hearing.
Dave Pack seems to be making excuses as to why his group is not growing physically as a church. Income still forces him to struggle, leading to his cancellation of his TV programs and the building of his mini-me auditorium and student center. Now that he has had heart survey and is sidelined while recovering, his cabal of 16 are running things. No matter how hard he boasts about the magnificence of his personality cult, it is struggling to survive. People are NOT flocking to him as he always lets on.
But we’ve reached a point where people can absolutely love the message, come in droves and still not act on it, and that’s a curious thing. So the number of people who are interested in us, following us, will rise into the many, many, many mega millions. It’s already in the millions, tens of millions, who know about us, but it’s going to explode eventually into hundreds of millions. I guess first scores and then hundreds, but it’s already scores of millions who know about us.“…but they will not do them: for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goes after their covetousness” (vs. 31). There is just too much out there to buy and to do. And the cares of this life, and drunkenness and surfeiting, which can mean, not just a hangover, but debauchery, are what people are sucked into. They can read The Real Truth magazine…And this was decades ago, before Mr. Armstrong died…It was The Plain Truth back then.
The new prophet and apostle of the Living Church of God has a new letter out to the faithful. As usual, everyone else in the world has fake faith except for the chosen few of the LCG church. The other manipulative tool that Weston uses, is the same one the Mormons use. "Don't' believe us, but let your heart tell you what you read is true. " The problem with this is that many people will claim they believe just to fit in with all the other "believers" who let on like they have it all right. It is ok for this to happen in LCG, but those in other churches or in mainstream Christianity are incapable of knowing what is right. The world is incapable of discerning God in their lives, but LCG is not. Well, we have all seen how well that has worked over the last 30 some years!
So that no one misunderstands, we should not have blind faith, as so many in the world have. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 admonishes us: “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (KJV). Yes, we must prove all things, and that is why we routinely instruct individuals seeking baptism not to believe something because that is what they always believed (or assumed). They need to prove to themselves the existence of God, that the Bible is His instruction book to mankind, and that this is the true Church. These things are provable! It is not good enough to have “always believed in God” or that “I grew up in the Church and know it to be the true Church.” Many atheists sincerely believe there is no God, Muslims sincerely believe truth is found in the Koran, Protestants sincerely believe their form of Protestantism is the religion of the Bible, and Catholics sincerely believe they are the “true Church.” Believing something and proving something are two different conceptsDoes "believing something and proving something" apply to LCG's reliance upon the myth of British Israelism as it pertains to new covenant Christians? They believe it is true, but can't prove it, just like they accuse Christians in other churches.
Weston believes that he has it all worked out and it does not matter what anyone thinks, which is exactly what those in other churches feel about their understanding and belief. The difference is, Weston is right and they are wrong. Ha! Ha!
Many times over the years, when events became difficult or confusing, I personally went back to review these three pillars of faith. I proved to myself then—and still can today—that God exists. I proved to myself, and still can, that the Bible is His word. And when it comes to the true Church, I know what the Bible says and cannot deny where God is working, based on what it says. It does not matter to me what others believe; I KNOW what I believe and why!Weston is dwelling upon faith because he wants LCG members to be prepared for their upcoming persecution.
Faith is the kind of evidence that gives courage to go through the most excruciating trials without giving up. “Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented…” (Hebrews 11:36–37). Only faith gives us such assurance that we, too, will obey God in the face of adversity.The only persecution LCG has faced have all come from within and it is has failed miserably so far. The persecution has come from on high to its members, not from some external source.
As usual with a COG, it is all about works and doing it all right. As usual, the members of LCG are apparently too incompetent to get it right. It has to be exhausting for LCG members to always be struggling to get it right and being told they are not.
When Dave Pack was able to poach Dale Schurter from United Church of God, Dave Pack was crowning like a rooster. Never had a defection been more significant than Schurter's. Dave immediately put Schurter in his re-education program to weed out the devil's influence from the aberrant doctrines of the United Church of God. After many long weeks, Schurter emerged as a new man with all the vigor that Dave demands.
Weeks and months went by as Schurter dreamed up bean fields and agricultural programs that were going to set the Restored Church of God into the forefront of the news. Those ensconced on the compound would learn how to grow things as it was grown in the Garden of Eden.
Then as Dave likes to say, "Bam!" Dave sent Schurter to the fringes of the group to purge the demons of UCG that still lingered in his soul. Both he and his wife were ridiculed in the pulpit by Dave. Never has a man descended in the ranks of the COG as fast as Schurter did.
After languishing for many months on the fringes, Schurter is now back in power and in the good graces of superfantabulous Dave.
Anyway, also, another piece of good news that could have been mentioned any number of weeks ago, that I don’t think was ever announced to the whole church—Mr. Schurter, Mr. Dale Schurter, is actively serving in the ministry again; doing much better and that’s wonderful—at the young age of 80, about two weeks ago today…So he’s serving as the Associate Pastor with Mr. McElroy in Dayton, Ohio, and I love to make those kinds of announcements.An 80 year old man has no business pastoring a church congregation no matter how "good" they might be. Besides, if RCG members truly believe what Dave teaches them, then how long will it be till Schurter goes off the deep end again and messes with Dave's teachings?
How can the people of Dayton be so stupid?
Dave Pack Drags Dale Schurter Out of the Re-education Camp to Introduce the Most IMPORTANT Agricultural Program On Earth
Deluded Dave says:
Now, one other thing that obviously drives that and can speed it up is how much money we have to spend on media. And as I’ve been saying recently, two or three times, and it’s continuing to increase. The number of dollars that we can put into media appears to be as though it’s going to be significantly greater, earlier than I ever dreamed. So that’s going to drive it, because, as Mr. Armstrong understood and every marketer understands, it’s how many eyeballs can you get on whatever the product is you’re offering.Dave has been off the air with his telecast for some time now. Money was needed to fund his campus expansion. Apparently, buildings and grass lawns were more important than his "gospel" message. His move back into television is now dependant once again upon the financial support of his members. You can see below that Dave guilts his members into giving more money. The more they give the more people who respond, the less they give, the fewer people will watch and read Dave's stuff. All belongs to God, therefore as God's most important man in human history, everything belongs to Dave. Send it in, dumb sheep.
So, if we’re on worldwide television again soon—and that’s now back in play in a serious way…Again, if people who have said they’re going to give certain amounts do, that’s in play, if just some of that arrives. A massive internet presence at the same time, with an ability every month to add more…And that will be driven by how much God’s people continue to give, you could call it generosity, you can call it obedience, because common belongs to God as much as tithes do…that will have an effect. So we can all pray about that.
Almost-ordained and almost-arrested Bob Thiel has an article up by John Ritenbaugh about prophets. It is ironic that Ritenbaugh writes about prophets/false prophets in the church. Ritenbaugh was the prophetic guru of many in the Glendale/Pasadena are for many years. Everything the man talked about people salivated over, copied, taped and shipped all around the country. Ritenbaugh has ended up like all of the other false prophets in the church, an epic failure!
All of us desire to know the future so we can be prepared for it. We want to be in control of our destinies and not at the mercy of events. However, some have this desire so strongly that they set themselves up as channels through which the future is revealed.
Such people have misled many. Deuteronomy 18, along with chapter 13, warns against such people. Whether they are called diviners, charmers, spiritists, or channelers, using methods like reading tea leaves, casting lots, or conducting séances, they are to be seriously and carefully avoided because there is no godly reality to their prognostications. Those seeking to know are being misguided, putting themselves at the mercy of lying demons, or at the very least, imaginative men and women.
At other times, simply following a church tradition regarding a prophecy can also mislead a person. This occurs because someone in the past, sincerely believing he understood a particular prophecy, began preaching his belief, and many in his audience then believed without the resources to prove the interpretation wrong. Due to frequent repetition, it came to be accepted as truth.
It is important for us to understand that prophets were not merely temporary and occasional expedients God would turn to. They played a vital and continuing role in Israel, especially in those times before the Word of God was widely distributed. This is why God makes provision for them within the law. He shows in many places that those He appoints to the prophetic office will always preach the keeping of the commandments of God as evidence of the Source of their inspiration. They will teach the conservation of past truths even as they break new doctrinal ground.
They both forthtell – that is, proclaim a message truthfully, clearly, and authoritatively to those for whom it is intended – and they will on occasion, but not always, foretell – that is, predict events before they take place.
It is misleading to believe these verses in Deuteronomy 18 apply only to Christ. His is undoubtedly their ultimate application, but the promise and description applies to all true, God-ordained prophets. Notice some of the identifiers in these verses:1. God established the foundational pattern for the prophetic office in Moses (“like me”).
2. God will raise a prophet up from among the Israelitish people. Later biblical sources show he might be drawn and appointed from any of the tribes and from any occupation. In other words, he did not have to be a Levite.
3. He will perform the function of a mediator between God and men (verses 16-18).
4. He will stand apart from the system already installed. He will not be antagonistic to the system, but he may be very antagonistic to the sins of those within the system, especially the leadership.
5. God will directly appoint and separate him for his office. Thus, the thrust of his service as God’s representative is direct and authoritative. By contrast, the priest’s function flowed from man to God by means of sacrifice – far less direct and more appealing and pleading than demanding. The New Testament ministry combines elements of both, but parallels the prophet’s function more than the priest’s.
Simply and broadly, a prophet is one who is given a message by another of greater authority and speaks for him to those for whom the message is intended. Thus, Moses was God’s prophet, but Aaron was Moses’ prophet.
Without a doubt, when we hear the word “prophet,” we immediately think of the Old Testament. This is a natural reaction because that is where most of them appear in the Bible. Our memory instantaneously brings forth names like Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and David – all great men. However, without a doubt, the two greatest prophets of all time appear in the New Testament: John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. John the Baptist is the last and greatest under the Old Covenant, and Jesus Christ is the first and greatest of the New.John W. Ritenbaugh
(The Berean, September 18, 2016)
Ritenbaughs comments above did not sit too well with Almost ordained and almost arrested Bob Thiel. Ritenbaughs comments make Almost ordained Thiel our to be a false prophet. that irritated Almost arrested Thiel so much that the made this comment, referring to himself, of course:
...the reality is that most real Christians will NOT accept biblical criteria for prophets in this age.
Sadly, many people in the Church of God (COG) have trouble believing that God actually uses prophets or how He would use them today.
The Apostle Paul makes it clear that not all are prophets. Prophet is an office and prophets are to prophesy. Although the position of groups like LCG is that it has NO prophets (which is the case as I stopped attending late on 12/28/12), it should be noted that its then top leader had repeatedly taught in the past that God may consider Bob Thiel to be a prophet
Almost ordained Thiel still continues to lie that Rod Meredith called him prophet. Meredith may have had tons of faults, but Meredith was not that naive or stupid to call Almost-arrested Thiel a prophet.
Almost ordained Thiel is so sure that he is a prophet that he has to quote Jesus where he states that prophets will be reviled and persecuted. Almost-ordained Thiel likes to pretend he is being reviled and persecuted by those of us here and by those in other COG's who laugh and mock him. Such a sad little man.
Why should a Church of God member ever trust any of the false prophets of Armstrongism? Every one of them have proven to be liars, including Almost-ordained Thiel.11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. (Matthew 5:11-12)Contrary to scripture, most end time Christians do not heed the following from the Apostle Paul:20 Despise not prophesyings. (1 Thessalonians 5:20, KJV)
20 Do not despise prophecies. (1 Thessalonians 5:20, NKJV
The Almost-ordained false prophet then precedes to make a list of 38 different items that he claims all of the other COG's are in error on. See it here.
The lying false prophet is now dragging United Church of God into the mix. Not only does he claim LCG claimed he was a prophet, but UCG did too! He claims that LCG and UCG recognized that all 38 of his points were 100% accurate.
The church has had false prophets in its midst from its very inception. The Pasadena headquarters
It should be noted that leaders in the Living Church of God and/or the United Church of God confirmed to me personally that I was biblically correct on essentially all the above points, despite the fact that their respective churches hold to several of the errors pointed out above. Those who rely too much on a compromised ministry (Ezekiel 34:7-10) to teach them prophecy that is not truly in accordance with scripture need to realize that according to Jesus’ words in Revelation 2 & 3 and Luke 21, only relatively few Christians will be protected from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole world (Revelation 3:10;
was filled with them. Hardly a week went by when a new prophet would appear at the Hall of Ad proclaiming some absurd prophecy. Hundreds, if not thousands made their way to Pasadena over the decades. Everyone of them is long gone and forgotten. Some had died, some still write silliness and publish it, and others finally hung up their prophetic glasses and got on with life, still as deluded as ever. Others like Almost-ordained Thiel and the Church Pharisee James Malm set themselves up as godly men do a "work". All they do now is toot their own horn and make idiotic predictions and then lie that they never did when confronted.
The Church of God in Wales holds staunchly to everything that Herbert Armstrong wrote and said. There is a reason for that. In their eyes, Herbert W Armstrong was an apostle through whom God communicated directly to with all of the spiritual knowledge that he dished forth. Because of that, no ordinary church member or minister could every receive spiritual knowledge that they could share with the rest of the brethren.
According to the COGinW, the disunity in the COG today is the result of busybodies pretending they are modern day conduits of knowledge from God. Thanks to the false prophets of Armstrongism, men like Almost-ordained Bob Thiel, Pharisee James Malm, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry and many others have set themselves up as apostles and teachers of blasphemies, pretending to be conduits of God's word. These liars are the reason behind the great disunity in the church today. All of these petulant little men took it upon themselves to set themselves up as apostles and prophets.
Unity is a vital and eternal quality that God insists is present within each of His potential sons and daughters. Without it, there can be no True Church of God; God and Christ and those within the Family of God are all to be one (John 17:21). If unity is lacking between different organisations that all claim to be the True Church, it indicates a grave sickness. “The people judge or decide” – the very meaning of the word “Laodicea” – gives rise to such an antithesis of unity. It produces a myriad of different interpretations of the same scriptures. But scripture is not for private interpretation (II Pet 1:20).
God has given His Church the means whereby the unity He insists upon can be achieved. To be in harmony under God, each of God’s people must have the humility to grow according to the grace given and not attempt to take something that is not theirs. The grace to lay foundations within the Church is specifically given to apostles – not the general ministry or membership. Only by aligning our teachings and beliefs with such foundations can the unity God wants be produced. Going in any other direction takes us away from God’s revelation and will produce chaos and confusion – the utter antithesis of what God insists must be found within His Family.
Several LCG sources have sent things to me over the last several months complaining about Living University, the "educational" arm of the Living Church of God.
It looks like Living Church of God's mind-boggling "university" does not sit well with many LCG members. LCG, as does several other COG splinters, is attempting to mimic Herbert Armstrong's three campuses that were here in the United States and in England. No matter how much any of these groups try, they still cannot nor will ever measure up to anything HWA inspired. As anyone who has ever had any ties to the Worldwide Church of God and all of its hundreds of harlot daughters knows, HWA had a vision, regardless of how it was implemented, that hundreds of thousands bought into over the decades. Today in 2017 the top four Church of God groups, no matter how hard they try, CANNOT recapture anything that Herbert Armstrong envisioned.
Even naming their one-room schoolhouses as "universities" have not helped these groups. Only Gerald Flurry has a campus and probably comes the closest to mimicking HWA, while UCG and LCG are lucky if they can occupy a floor or two in their denominational HQ's.
Living Church of God members are particularly perturbed at the "university" they are paying for, that in their eyes is not producing any good fruits. Most of its "student body" is made up of church members in remote locations "auditing" classes online. The 20 or so full-time students in Charlotte are an expensive drain on LCG resources.
When you look at the "mission" of the LCG University, notice one group pf people they claim to be touching: "society."
The purpose of Living U is to "provide instruction relevant to the changing needs of the Individual, the church, and society." What relevant things is LU doing that is relevant to society? LU is geared inwardly towards the church and LCG members know this. It does nothing for society and has had zero impact. While it may look good on an IRS tax form, LCG members are not happy with LU's mission.double click to enalrge
Nor, are LCG members impressed with the rampant nepotism in the hierarchy of Living U.
This should be nothing new to LCG members. This is how the Church of God has functioned for decades. Family members always received priority in hiring, promotions, ordinations, etc. God forbid if any lay member was ever appointed to the board of any of these entities! Lay members have always been considered too stupid to help run any of the church entities. Only the sons and relatives of the top leaders qualified, no matter how stupid or abusive they are!double click to enlarge
The hierarchy of the Church of God has always been "incestuous" in the way all of the top families intermarried and kept control of the family business (the church). Nepotism was the rule of the day in the old Worldwide Church of God and remains so to this day in EVERY one of the larger COG splinters.
It has been fascinating to see the mental breakdown of Dave Pack over the past few years. This is not something that just appeared recently though. Dave has left a trail of destruction in every church area he has ever pastored in. Worldwide Church of God leaders knew what a sick man he was decades ago and did nothing but move him from one church area to another as members filed complaints. No one ever had the wherewithal in Church Administration to remove him from the ministry. It shows that the church had very little care for the members he abused.
The Painful Truth has the following two quotes from Ambassador Report 32 about Dave Pack on its page: The Devil and Dave Pack
From AR 32Armstrong Follower Held In Murder of DaughterOn Sept. 20, 1984, Armstrong follower Lois Marie Elliott of North Tonawanda, New York was charged with second- degree murder. Police say that before dawn that day, the 36-year-old woman stabbed her four-year-old daughter to death in the child’s bed, knifed herself in the chest, in an apparent suicide attempt, and then telephoned police, saying, “I killed her.” Officers dispatched to the scene discovered the pajama-clad body of the little girl, Roxanne Elizabeth, in her own bed. She had already died from multiple stab wounds, mostly to the chest. Mrs. Elliott was found nearby bleeding from a wound to her own chest. (The Buffalo News, Sept. 20, 1984, p. 1 and Sept. 21, p. C- 5.)Elliott was divorced from her WCG-member husband Frederick R. Elliott of Kenmore, New York, and had been living with her widowed mother Olive Baldassara. Mrs. Baldassara was home the night of the tragedy, but was apparently asleep in another room during the attack.Investigators say that Elliott had telephoned police the previous evening claiming her ex-husband had sexually abused their daughter. But police have since concluded that there are “no facts to support that allegation.” After Elliott was treated at a hospital and released into police custody, she told investigators she had “committed a sin that would carry on through her bloodline” and that her daughter had “committed an unpardonable sin and didn’t pray enough.”Neighbors described Elliott as a reclusive “religious fanatic” who rarely allowed her daughter outdoors to play. Church acquaintances told us that although Elliott had been disfellowshipped from the WCG, she had remained faithful to church teachings and had desired to be reinstated in the church. Reinstatement was not forthcoming, however, because she had been labeled as having a “demon problem.”One of Elliott’s church friends said, “I don’t think Pack [Dave Pack, a WCG minister in the Buffalo, New York area] ever encouraged her to get psychiatric help. And if he really thought she had demons, why didn’t he just cast them out, like in the Bible?”Another acquaintance said, “We could sense Lois had a problem, but her church experience and her marriage problems didn’t help her. Then after she was disfellowshipped she seemed to get worse. She really needed help.”Niagara County First Assistant District Attorney Stephen P. Shierling told the Report he fully intends to prosecute Elliott on the murder charge. But Elliott’s attorney, James Perry of North Tonawanda told us that his client has been declared mentally incompetent to assist in her own defense, has been committed to a state mental hospital for treatment, and that there is no way to know if she will ever recover sufficiently to be able to stand trial.Whatever the legal outcome, the fact remains that a pretty little four-year-old girl is dead. Neighbors told reporters how Roxanne’s father had visited the little girl at least twice each week and how happy she always seemed to be when he arrived. The Buffalo News story of Sept. 21 had this ending:Although neighbors Thursday said that they never saw the little girl playing outside, her father, Mr. Elliott, talked about her energy and her precociousness. She loved to dance and draw and could name all the states, he said.“She had a mind like you wouldn’t believe,” he told The News. “She was like a little adult, a little Shirley Temple. She was so vivacious.” Mr. Elliott then politely declined any further comment, and broke down in tears.David Pack’s Reign of TerrorOn the night of Roxanne Elliott’s death, one of the last people – probably the very last one – Lois Elliott phoned before the tragedy was WCG minister David Pack, pastor of the Buffalo (North), New York congregation.. Exactly what was said, we don’t know. At least not yet. That information may well come out should Lois Elliott ever recover sufficiently to stand trial. What is remarkable, however, is how often Pack’s name seems to appear in conjunction with tragedies in the WCG. For a number of years now, no WCG minister’s name has appeared more often in letters written to the Report complaining of ministerial abuse.Pack, a burly 6-foot, 5-inch Ambassador College graduate known locally for his authoritarian style, has so incensed some in his flock that a group have circulated an open letter detailing his abuses and have called for his removal. The letter describes Pack’s ministerial leadership as a “Reign of Terror.” On the cover page, addressed to WCG headquarters leaders, they wrote:“David’s power-crazed quest to totally dominate the mind, body, and spirit of church members has not been done in a corner and has been done clearly in view of all to see at headquarters in Pasadena.”On the following 13 pages of their letter the allegations about Pack read like a horror story. The authors contend that Pack constantly intimidates members, uses threats and mind-control methods, is given to extreme emotional outbursts, is highly political, believes in winning at all cost, has disfellowshipped members for trivial faults, prescribes diets while “playing M.D.,” insists on being addressed as Mr. Pack, enjoys wearing skimpy, skin-tight shorts to sporting events, has actually worn a wolf costume to church socials, enjoys putting down women, and told one married woman with children, “It would be better for you to shack up one night with a man than wear makeup.”
The letter quotes Pack as having said, “Everyone who has challenged me has either died, been seriously injured or has been eliminated from the work.” And, “God backs me even if I am wrong.” On page 7 the authors made this statement to Pack (emphasis ours): Doesn’t it bother you that while you were in charge of the Rochester and Syracuse area there were three suicides? One can only wonder why they chose to kill themselves while you were their main advisor in the area. Perhaps you suggested to one or more of them that they would in no way make it into the Kingdom of God…. A statement such as, “You are no longer in the body of Christ,” could have caused one to give up and kill himself.The above quote was written well before the Elliott family tragedy. Some who knew little Roxanne and her mother Lois Elliott wonder if it might have been a prophecy.
Church of God News is reporting about Rod McNair's new video that Living Church of God has posted. The Living Church of God has been having issues ever since Gerald Weston's appointment with LCG with members not giving him the respect he supposedly deserves. McNair and others have spent considerable time trying to reinforce the importance of Weston's position as one that is in direct lineage with the Apostle Peter. Apostolic succession supposedly passed from Herbert Armstrong to Rod Meredith and then to Gerald Weston. The problem is the middleman in this equation, Roderick C Meredith. Herbert Armstrong found Meredith to be unfit to be running the church. Armstrong even banished Meredith to Hawaii for a year in order to do some self-examination. It did not work. Meredith could never understand why he was in trouble. Armstrong strongly informed Meredith that he was unfit to lead, yet Meredith rebelled over and over, eventually starting two splinter groups based solely upon his self-righteous personality.
On September 8th a video by Rod McNair, ‘Peter and the Key-Man Principle’, was uploaded onto both the lcg.org and Facebook websites, and also YouTube.
In an interview with Jeff Booth in 1980, Herbert Armstrong declared:
“When Mr. Armstrong wanted to change a doctrine, he simply changed it. I think there should have been more of a deliberate process. The ministry should have been more involved in the doctrinal discussions and decisions.”
One doctrine, in particular, was a problem with Mr. Booth, and it mattered little how it had come into being. The doctrine was the so-called primacy-of-Peter teaching: that the apostle Peter was the first in a line of chief apostles from the 1st century to Mr. Armstrong. By 1980 Mr. Armstrong for several years had referred to himself as “an apostle” and “chief apostle” and even “God’s apostle.”
“In the course of the three hours and 20 minutes we discussed a number of things, one of the primary ones being the primacy of Peter,” said Mr. Booth. “Mr. Armstrong went into a discussion about having received direct revelation from God Himself of all the truth that he held and stated that he had learned nothing from any man.”
“The title, and the keys, passed from chief apostle to chief apostle, from Peter to Peter. Each chief apostle was the new Peter. He said, ‘Now I am the chief apostle, and I am the Peter’.”
“Whatever I bind is bound in heaven, and whatever I loose is loosed in heaven.” “The Day of Pentecost is now on Sunday. But, since I had made the decision to observe Pentecost on Monday, for years the Day of Pentecost was actually on Monday.”
Was the office of ‘The Peter’ passed from Herbert Armstrong to Roderick Meredith? Herbert Armstrong wrote to Roderick Meredith (later in 1980), rejecting him as a possible successor: (See below)
“Rod, in frankest candor, JESUS CHRIST will NEVER put any one at the head of His Work on earth who is competitive, covetous of power and status, and self-righteous. In brutal frankness, you lack the charisma to lead God's work. You do not attract - as I said before, you REPEL people. You are a harsh taskmaster over those under you. THAT IS YOUR RECORD!”
How then can the ‘Peter Principle’ pass the title and the keys’ to Gerald Weston - giving him the power to bind and loosen biblical doctrine?
Because Rod Meredith was an illegitimate church leader, due to his own self-appointment, Gerald Weston is not a legitimate church leader any more than Almost-ordained Bob Thiel is. If you want to go even further back in time, Herbert Armstrong was an illegitimate church leader too because he too rebelled and set himself up as a church leader.
WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD WORLD HEADQUARTERSPASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91123
HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG Tucson, March 14, 1980
President and Pastor
Your letters of February 1 and March 7 show, I am sorry to say, that either you still cannot understand WHY the living Head of God's Church, Jesus Christ, had you sent to Hawaii, or you are unwilling to see or admit — and I prefer to believe the former.
There is no point in telling you this letter is written in LOVE for YOU — for you ought to know that without my saying it. But out of love for you, and DESIRE to see you back as PART OF GOD'S TEAM, working in full co-operation and right attitude with the rest o[f] us; I shall take time and space to make it clear once for all this time.
I have tried to hold the mirror up for you to see yourself as others see you. But still you don't see in that mirror the same YOU that others see-or are unwilling — I hope not the latter. But now I must be SURE! I shall speak plainly, candidly. If this letter hurts, I quote from a letter the Apostle Paul sent to brethren at Corinth: "For though I made you angry with a letter, I do not repent... for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance, for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
"For godly sorry worketh repentance to salvation ... but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (II Cor. 7:8-10).
Now I'm going to come with plainness of speech as Paul said — in I Corinthians 2.
To overseas audiences, and to Kings, Emperors, Presidents and Prime Ministers, I simmer down the WAY OF GOD and the WAY OF THE WORLD in two very small words — "GET" and "GIVE." This world is geared to the way of "GET." That is the way of VANITY, SELF-centeredness, coveting, lust and greed, jealousy and envy, rebellion against authority, competition which leads to strife, violence and war. The way of "GIVE" is OUT-flowing LOVE, harmonious co-operation, serving, helping, sharing, giving.
In spiritual PRINCIPLE, the latter is the way of God's Law, the Ten Commandments-the former the way of Satan. I tell them that ALL the Unsolvable problems, troubles and evils in the world are caused by the fact the world lives by the "GET" principle.
Rod, WHY have so many who have worked [with you] said that you rub the fur the [w]rong way? You are DOCTRINALLY correct., But in II Corinthians Paul says we are not to live by the strict letter of the Law, but by the SPIRIT or obvious INTENT — the basic PRINCIPLE of it (II Cor. 3:6). You are a model of doctrinal correctness according to the LETTER — the strictness of the letter — but you do overlook the SPIRIT from the heart. You won the mile in a state high-school meet, You had know[n,] as Satan injects into us all from childhood, the spirit of competition. You b[e]came a COMPETITOR. In conversion you learned and accepted the strictness of the letter of God's Commandments. You wrote a good booklet on the Ten Commandments. But now I hold the mirror up for you to see in yourself what SO MANY who know you well see in you — the SPIRIT of COMPETITION is still there!
You are not going to like this, Rod. Members of your family will resent it. But I am the chosen apostle of Jesus Christ and in His name, I have to say these things to you, for I want to have you with us IN GOD'S KINGDOM — and there will be no contentions — no spirit of competition there! No one is going to be there who strives for himself to take over the CHIEF SEAT!
Jesus Christ through me elevated you to the chief seat (which you had come to me suggestin[g] over the ministry of God's Church in what we then called CAD, you were a harsh task-master over the ministers. You, yourself, find it difficult and perhaps impossible to TAKE what you dished out. Dozens of ministers would testify to that. You rubbed the fur the wrong way! That has been your life-style!
In a sense, though I approved it at the time, you came to me [(]when Raymond Cole was trying to administer CAD from Eugene,[)] to jerk the rug out from under Raymond-and he feels that to this day. I knew, as did you, that CAD could not be handled from Eugene, and I approved your suggestion and put you in the driver's seat over the ministers of the Church when it was not yet so big.
When you were made second Vice President, it became a standing joke among leaders at Pasadena, the saying, "Well, after all, I am the second Vice President."
Jesus said, "And whosoever of you will be chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even th[e] Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister" (Mark 10:44-45). Jesus said further, "Beware of the scribes which wear long robes, ...and [love] the highest seats in the synagogue, and the chief rooms (offices-ranks-positions), at feasts" (Luke 20:46). Rod, am I qualified to call to your attention, these things? I came into the ministry more than fifty years ago, back in Oregon. I was never a member of the Church of God, Seventh Day, headquartered at Stanberry, Missouri. The church of Dugger and Dodd at Salem, W. Virginia, was an off-shoot, and, like Ted's present "church". Ray Cole's, and other's, NOT the true Church of God. However, I never became a member of the Salem offshoot. Half of the Oregon brethren (while all were in Stanberry) had incorporated as a separate church, "The Oregon Conference." I was ordained by them. Twice I was paid by them-about four months at $20 a week, and 15 mon[n]ths later, from February to July, 1933, at $3 per week.
But I did CO-OPERATE with the Stanberry people, from 1927 until ordained by the Oregon Conference, June, 1931-without salary, I co-operated with the Salem people after the start of the present Worldwide Church Of God (then called the Radio Church of God), and WITHOUT RECEIVING FROM THEM A PENNY OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT in any way, from 1934 (after both the World [T]omorrow radio program was going, and The PLAIN TRUTH was being published) until August, 1937. And after that, while building the present Church of God, Philadelphia era, I co-operated at my own expense with the Stanberry (Sardis era) people until October, 1945.
I DID NOT, as Ted claims (he was 5 years old when I ceased the co-operation with them because of the pressure of the Work in the present Church of God). I did not leave them to start something of my own. I continued working with them-GIVING, not getting-at my own exp[e]nse co-operating — GIVING — as long as my time allowed.
But the point I want to make is this: I SERVED — I HELPED — I co-operated. And I did not have or seek any high position. I always considered myself, just as the Sardis ministers did, that I was the LEAST of the ministers-the TAIL-ENDER!
When I conductedFirbute school house (36 seats) in 1933, I stopped receiving even the $3 per week salary from the Oregon Conference.
As the tail-end LEAST of the ministers, Christ started me in that little 36-seat school house, I constantly suffered persecution-first from Stanberry ministers, then again from Salem, W. Va.-ministers, then again from Stanberry. The 19 members we had from that Firbutte campaign was the START of the present Worldwide Church of God. The brethren at the start were my own converts-my own children in the Lord. NEVER in all my ministerial experience, I once sought a higher position.
Jesus Christ gave me the Pastor position at the start. The Church grew, as I held other campaigns in Eugen[e] and in Alvadore. Finally I appointed and ordained two other elders, one a preaching elder and one a local elder, at Eugene, beside two deacons. In those early years of this, our present Church, I served as pastor of a Stanberry church near Jefferson, Oregon. There I appoin[t]ed and ordained two elders, and two deacons — for THEIR church. All the time I "GAVE"— I did not "GET." Before that I had learned how Paul says, in II Corinthians 3:6, that we must obey the SPIRIT or obvious INTENT of the Law, not the letter. I had dedicated my life to "GIVE" and not to "GET." As the Work grew, Christ used me in founding Ambassador College. After their graduation I ordained m[y] son Dick, Raymond Cole, Herman Hoeh, Raymon[d] Mc Nair and his brother. From there you know the history, Your uncle and yourself came along about next, then others. I ne[v]er sought or moved up to a higher rank or office. Jesus Christ raised up the Church through me. I came to the position I hold as the simple result of what the living Head of this Church raised up through me.
But others have sought higher Position. There has been, it seems, NO END of worldly POLITICS at Pasadena Headquarters. As Christ blessed and prospered God's Church and Work, and we came to have better than $100,000,000 of net worth, and a near $80 million a year income, there devel[o]ped a mad scramble for ever higher and higher rank. Sure, I made some mistakes. I naively TRUSTED men like Al Portune, David Antion, my own son, Wayne Cole, many others no longer with us. But now, f[o]r the first time since about 1967, there is HARMONY and a spirit of Co-oper[a]tion at Pasadena. AND I AM DETERMINED TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!
Now back to you.
You have demonstrated, as seen clearly by many others, a spirit of rank-consciousness. In plain language that is coveting higher authority. I do not think you have coveted more money. I do not think more money is what Ted, Al Portune, Dave Antion, Ray Cole, Wayne or others really coveted. They coveted POWER — more authority — like a 15-year old boy coveting the POWER of a steering wheel and a throttle. We have gone through a House CLEANING. We now have PEACE and CO-OPERATION at Pasadena. And eight to ten others on the executive level there have voiced to me their fears and convictions that if you now come back to Pasadena, that PEACE, and HARMONY, and CO-OPERATION will be turned once again into constant contention, irritation, and HARM TO GOD'S WORK! I do not like to tell you this. I haven't mentioned this to all, but to those I mentioned your return, that is the unanimous feeling.
If I have you come back as Dean of the Faculty, several say you would delegate most or the real duties of the Dean, and devote yourself to trying to make yourself the LEADER and boss of the College, and even of the Chur[ch.] You have — and all are aware of it — been possessed with the idea that I will not live much longer, and that YOU are the "FIRST among equals" to take my place.
Rod, in frankest candor, JESUS CHRIST will NEVER put any one at the head of His Work on earth who is competitive, covetous of power and status, and [self-righteous]. In brutal frankness, you lack the charisma to lead God's work You do not attract-as I said before, you REP[EL-] people. You are a harsh taskmaster over those under you. THAT IS YOUR RECORD!
When I wrote you [
] that a change of ATTITUDE is needed, perhaps I have at last made myself clear.
You have said that you only said a few statements you probably should not have made, but you didn't think you had said enough to warrant this six months' leave of absence. Rod, I'm very well aware of the amount of words you said against Christ's chosen apostle. But Jesus said, "of the abundance of the heart (attitude) the mouth speaketh." What you did say, affirmed to me by two witnesses, was sufficient, coupled with many other things, to show me the [a]ttitude back of those words. You try to c[o]nvince me of how glowingly and how numerous were the times you have shown loyalty by the things you have said "hundreds" or "thousands of times". But in this regard your attitude reflected [
] OMISSION rather than the sparse and sparing things you did say. Ted was leading a conspiracy to destroy my credibility before the ministers and the brethren by saying nothing about me — as if the human leader did not exist — and blowing himself up. Radio and TV programs went under his name-no longer The World [T}omorrow. He even started correspondence under HIS OWN [Letter head] NAME, rather than that of the Church or College. Now I do not want any of our ministers flattering me, or trying to see how often they can mention my name.
But neither do I want it deliberately AVOIDED in both speaking and writing, as if I did not exist. Jesus Christ — NOT MAN — has made me the human leader under Christ. A leader cannot be a leader if all under him IGNORE his very existence. I never did want anyone to go out of his way deliberately to mention me — as you profess to have done. That is not what I mean. But I do not want the other extreme, caused by a competitive feeling, and deliberate non-mention.
Now another thing you cover in your letters. You imply that in what few things you did say, you were FOLLOWING MY ORDERS. Rod, that is hypocrisy. It is not a matter that I CHANGED MY MIND. Let me tell you how it [ac]tually was. When I told you and Raymond, and perhaps another or two, that IF I were no longer among the living, I wanted you to be su[re] Ted did not slip in and take over. At that time, I had heard SO MUCH talk about my dying right away, perhaps started by Ted, that for a while I was overly conscious of it.
It is not that later I changed my mind. But as time went on I began to realize very deeply that God has not prepared ANYONE to take my place. You, Rod, could never take it. I know that is 100% contrary to your own estimate of yourse[l]f. You have a WILL to lead, but not the qualifications. I came to realize that God raise[d] me [from the dead-f]rom total heart failure-in August, 1977, FOR A PURPOSE.
I have felt like the Apostle Paul, when he said earlier in life it would be more profitable for him to depart this life — and in the next split-second of consciousness, be with Christ in the resurrection, but it was more needful that he stay.
I did not CHANGE my mind. I did come to realize, as God caused me to realize, that He had raised me up as His instrument to raise up His present Church and Work — and that Work is not finished. So after my heart had completely stopped, my breath — no pulse — no blood-pressure — by mouth-to-mouth resuscitation I was br[o]ught back. I have not said I now believe God will keep me alive until Christ comes. I have said and I say now again, I do believe He will keep me alive AS LONG AS HE NEEDS ME!
You have taken the attitude that "some one GOT [you]." No one did but your own self.
I have tried here to make clear what I mean by a CHANGE OF ATTITUDE. I sincerely hope you "get the message" this time. Self-pity is not your need. A change of ATTITUDE from "GET" to "GIVE" is! If this letter does not get through to you, I shall not try again. So far you have not admitted a wrong attitude. Your RIGHTEOUSNESS you have maintained! But it has been only so much "filthy rags" to GOD! God said-rather, Christ to His disciples, that he who would seek the top seat should be the SERVANT of all. We should be as a little child.
So far, four months or more of your leave of absence has profited you NOTHING! Rod, in a candor, HAVE YOU EVER REALY REPENTED? To repent means much more than being sorry, or remorseful. It means a CHANGE OF HEART — a CHANGE OF ATTITUDE — a CHANGE FROM "GET" TO "GIVE." From competition, vanity, coveting power and position, to harmonious co-operation. BELIEVE ME, there is PEACE, and HARMONY at Pasadena now. Our men there do not want it disturbed. I have held up the mirror with BRUTAL frankness-in LOVE not only for you but also for GOD'S WORK! The Work is getting along wonderfully well now-without you. It can go on growing and pleasing Jesus Chris[t] an[d] prospering under His blessing WITHOUT YOU. I have written you are not coming back until I am CONVINCED BY THE FRUITS of a real REPENTANCE, and CHANGE OF ATTITUDE. I hope at last I have MADE IT PLAIN.
In deep LOVE as a father to a son,
In Jesus' name.
Herbert W. Armstrong
President and Pastor
United Church of God members are still being hoodwinked into tithing on the second tithe they have saved for the Feast. UCG has cunningly changed the name of the tithe of the tithe to the Festival Fund. Neither one has any scriptural validity. Of the millions and millions UCG rakes in each year a person would think that UCG would foot the bill for the members. After all, UCG takes in several large "offerings" during this time that are supposed to be "free will" offerings.
UCG, like most of the other COG's have fine tuned the system to take and take from members, even though none of the ministry and some of the HQ staff save second tithe. Since they are considered "Levites," thanks to the old Worldwide Church of God teaching, ministers do not save second tithe. On top of that, many ministers and staff staying free at resorts where the Feast sites are located. Then add to this the "blessing" ministers and certain staff have of having all of their meals, travel, gas and some personal expenses paid for by the church, it is one big happy fun fest of never having to worry about expenses, unlike a large percentage of UCG members have to do.
God's most favorite Chief Pharisee is pulling a "Bob Thiel" today by claiming Church of God members are being intensely persecuted, so much so that some are being kidnapped and are being put in deprogramming programs.
This is what the lying fool Pharisee James Malm posted today:
Can this idiot truly be serious???? It is people of faith being brainwashed by the blatant legalistic LIES of Malm, Thiel, Pack, Flurry, Kubik and others. These men have all left trails of destruction in their wake as they destroy the spiritual and mental health of tens thousands of members. Demanding the keeping of New Moons and blowing trumpets is just the tip of the legalistic bullshit these morons force on members. They cannot talk about Jesus but will sit on their self-righteous asses with telescopes straining to see the faintest crescent of the moon rising.
The lying Pharisee then goes on to claim this is happening to COG members:
Such brainwashing mind control techniques as deprivation, hypnosis, the technique of having several persons take turns bullying and intimidating a person while giving the victim no rest until they collapse, and threats of violence and severe intimidation are used.If any COG members are dealing with this now it should be Philadelphia Church of God or Restored Church of God members. They NEED to be deprogrammed!
I can guarantee you that not one single COG member is being bullied to the point they are ready to collapse.
The lying Pharisee continues:
Don't forget how the lying Pharisee is also begging for more money from his few hundred followers so that he can be supported instead of getting off his ass and getting a real job. God forbid!
There are certainly cult deprogramming groups out there that deal with Scientology and others trapped in abusive and spiritually degenerate cults. These people have rescued people from dangerous cults and help guide them back to reality.
The lying Pharisee has these words of advice:
The way to deal with such vile evil is to:Spiritually degenerate men like Almost Ordained and arrested Bob Thiel, Chief Pharisee James Malm and others will lie through their teeth in order to make themselves look like martyrs for the crap they preach. The world is not torturing them or persecuting them for their beliefs. All they want is more money from their gullible sheep to support them in their "ministries."
The feel-good story of the day! No longer burdened by the unscriptural lie of the demand to tithe and give countless offerings to one of the most perverse and spiritually bankrupt Churches of God's on earth today, an ex-member is close to being debt free and buying his first home.
Almost Financially Free After Exiting PCG:September 22, 2017Ever since I left PCG I am much better off financially. They would say pay your 1st, 2nd and every 3rd year your 3rd tithe and of course the tithe of the tithe before FOT. I was always struggling for money and the "church" was like, well, if you are struggling you are not obeying the tithing law and need to do more. I was at one point considering bankruptcy until I finally left. Now, I am doing much better financially. I have paid down a substantial amount of debt and actually have money in my bank account, unlike when I had to send my tithe money and barely had 2 cents left in the bank. I am getting financially debt free and if I was still paying all those tithes I would likely still be struggling all the time. I could never afford a to buy a home and always rented in part because the PCG seem to frown upon people buying houses due to the "end of days" and all and money should be put towards God's Work and not physical things. Now, I actually believe in a few short months I will be able to buy a home. --Former PCG member Exit and Support
It has to be so frustrating sitting in your home office day in and day out, stymied by the fact that all of the Church of God's laugh at you and members ridicule you. How can God, who has personally set you apart as a witness to the world, allow such things to happen? But alas, the way of a martyr is always painful and fraught with tests that God allows because he has let Satan run the world. Big bad meanie Satan is out to make sure COG members do not follow the real prophets of the church. Or, that is what these self-appointed deluded professional liars of the COG believe about themselves.
Almost-arrested and almost-ordained Bob Thiel, God's most highly favored COG leader in the history of the world, and the most disappointing "son" Rod Meredith could have ever imagined, is upset once again that Living Church of God has failed to see that he is the one true prophet of the end times.
This arrogant self-appointed fool has this to say about himself and Living Church of God's stance that there are no prophets in the Church of God today.
Living Church of God members must be devastated to know that when Almost-ordained Thiel left to start his own personality cult, that there are no longer any prophets in the church. Talk about narcissistic arrogance!
LCG’s position is that it has NO prophets (which is apparently the case as I stopped associating with LCG on 12/28/12). And it has had Dexter Wakefield publish that:We are aware of no prophets in the Church today (Wakefiel D. Living Church News, July-August 2015, p. 26)
But it should be noted that its top leader had repeatedly taught in the past that God may consider Bob Thiel to be a prophet (see How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God). Consider also:
Now that I am not in LCG, it seems obvious that LCG does not have any prophets. As far as LCG and other COGs go, they have at least 38 prophetic errors, which are cited in the article The Laodicean Church Era.
The false prophet of Africa continues to lie about Rod Meredith calling him a prophet. Elijah Thiel believes that because he is younger than most COG leaders, that HE and HE alone is that younger prophet. Rod Meredith laughs from his grave at this idiocy!
LCG’s late Roderick C. Meredith taught that Elijah would be a younger man than he. Its Dr. Winnail has taught that the Elijah is not a person but an “Elijah-type work” which fulfills the Elijah prophesies in Matthew 17:10-11 and Malachi 4:4-6 (Winnail D. The Mission of the Church. Living Church News, March-April 2006, p. 7). The Bible shows that ‘Elijah’ will be a person (see also The Elijah Heresies).
Thankfully, 99.99999% of the LCG membership know Amos Thiel to be a liar and a fraud. That is why he has to run to Africa to find members. Members who are using him for all they can get, but apparently the prophet is too limited in visions to see that.As far as rarity goes, I would ask, “How many people were told by an actual top evangelist in the Church of God that God may consider him to be a prophet?” In the 20th and 21st centuries, there is only one who comes to mind (details are in the article How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God). So, while prophets are “rare,” and being told one is a prophet by an ordained evangelist is also rare, rarity does not mean that there are none.
The almost-ordained one is particularly perturbed that these lying fools are making Christians look stupid. From wayward planets, Obama and Hillary, to the eclipse, it has been one crazy prophecy after another, and Almost-arrested Thiel has to talk about all of them on his blog. Why he wants to give them credence by the incessant reporting is beyond most peoples comprehension.
The lying false prophet and self-appointed preacher then makes this hypocritical statement:
Because various ones have falsely claimed that God is sending a message through natural phenomena, they are turning people off against Bible prophecy.Seriously? Almost-ordained Thiel claims these people are turning people against Bible prophecy when he has done the exact same thing! His prophecies are just as bad as the 208 documented lies of Herbert Armstrong, Herman Hoeh, Rod Meredith and others.
Elijah Thiel then quotes a scripture that describes when he does precisely:
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. (2 Peter 2:1-3)Almost-arrested Thiel then writes this:
The false prognosticators cause the Christian way to be blasphemed, even though (in my view) none of those I have specifically named are real Christians.Can he really be serious? What about the hundreds, if not thousands of false prognosticators that have littered the Church of God over the last 8 decades? What about the lies of James Malm, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack and those he has espoused? Thiel, Malm, and all of the others are the blasphemers!
He ends with this:
...there are many false and heretical leaders that lead people astray on prophecy. Sometimes they mention the Bible to try to act like God sanctions their nonsense. And it is not just the secular fringe people, but also those who claim to be Christian or even in the Church of God.What about the false and heretical leaders in the Church of God who have led and continue to lead members astray with one lie after another. Every single one of these lying fools use their Bible to pretend that their god has validated their teachings. It's not just the idiots on WorldNetDaiy that say these lies, it is Church of God leaders like Thiel, Malm, Pack, Flurry and others that do this day in and day out. Nothing that Thiel or Malm predicts will ever happen. That is guaranteed!