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Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. Every crazy, weird and wacky quote is straight from the pens of Armstrongite leaders or members who think they possess some insight into God and the Bible. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!

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    Dave Pack on the greedy, grasping and covetous splinter group leaders and members.
    It’s also a quality of God. God is longsuffering. People have really disgraced God’s name. For decades, a lot of these people, who will turn out to be wonderful, walked around with what Christ says is their private parts hanging out, spiritually speaking! They walked “naked” and disgraced Him. This great servant came in the 20th century, and when he died and we had a false leader, they ruptured into 400 groups, they were so greedy and grasping and covetous. Trust me when I tell you, because I know so many of them. They are covetous! They’ll find no problem…be falling off a log backwards to sell God’s people from these groups—who shamefully went on to split into 400 groups because they didn’t see a leader like Mr. Armstrong. Certainly, Joe Tkach wasn’t, so they picked the leader of their choosing.
    I don’t know if God gets embarrassed by His people. I don’t know. I don’t read in the Scriptures that God gets embarrassed; but certainly, they have trashed His name, and they’ve flung mud all over the name of Herbert W. Armstrong by falling into this terrible condition. God isn’t going to let them just waltz back in while He’s playing their favorite tune. They have to be tested, and proof that they need to be tested is that some of them are going to sell out. What if He just let them come? The sellouts would come back, and we’d have a mess on our hands.

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    It is almost Passover time in the various Churches of God.  The abusive splinter groups are posting all kind so articles letting members know that their salvation is at stake of they take it improperly, miss it, or have not removed every bit of learning from their homes.  They will soon gathering in high school gyms, union halls or Masonic Lodges to observe their solemn version of killing Jesus once again, where they will leave him till next year when they gather in the same room.  Church members have been so conditioned to fear for their salvation that they are concerned as to what to do this time of year if they have left a COG group.   Do not let the lying fear mongers like Bob Thiel, James Malm, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry and other frighten you that your salvation is at stake.  It is not.  It is an impossibility.

    Exit and Support has the following up:
    We need to first understand that the observance of festivals in high demand groups is for the purpose of controlling members. It is much easier to have authority over someone if their lives are molded around the "church."  
    Leaders of totalistic groups have always taught that if healthy members didn't show up for the Passover service, they were gravely sinning and were in danger of "losing the Holy Spirit." To the contrary, the Scriptures show that the Holy Spirit and eternal life cannot be lost or taken away, and we are sealed the moment we place our faith and trust in Christ. (See John 14:16; John 10:28; II Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30)  
    Christ, our Passover, has already been offered. Therefore, to continue to observe the O.T. Passover is to say He never came.  
    Today many Christians observe what is called the "Lord's Supper" (often referred to as Communion), but the issue is not whether we do or don't observe a ritual and how often. It is about what Christ has already done for us and remembering that every day. He no longer holds our sins against us. 
    The Lord's Supper (excellent study; explains the Last Supper in the context of the Passover; also covers I Corinthians 11 in the 2nd message and how many people have twisted it today) (offsite link]

    What about The Night To Be Much Observed?

    Should Christians celebrate the Night to be Much Observed? Nowhere does the Bible tell Christians to observe this occasion.

    WHAT?!?!?!? How on earth can I say that? It's a Night. To. Be. Much. Observed. The Bible clearly tells us to remember it. It's in the name, for crying out loud.
    How did Christ's original disciples spend the night after the Passover? Were they celebrating the night of this alleged observance, while their teacher's body lay in the garden tomb?  It seems unlikely. There is no mention of a celebration that night, and John 20:11 tells us that Mary Magdalene was still weeping when she went to the tomb. The disciples appeared to be visibly upset when Christ met them on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:17. Lavish food was the furthest thing from their minds.
    In short, the case for celebrating Herbert W Armstrong's Night to Be Much Observed is flimsy at best. Christians who honestly consider its alleged timing and symbolism may find it a tad distasteful. The COGs have us celebrate Christ's victory when His body was barely cold in the grave, yet they ignore the miracle of His resurrection. If were commanded to keep it, that would be one thing. But we aren't. It isn't even in the Bible. 

    Were gentiles in Corinth observing the Feast of Unleavened bread?

    Easter FAQ

    Easter History part I

    Easter History part II

    Wayne Carver's Crucifixion Chronology - part I

    Wayne Carver's Crucifixion Chronology - part II

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    Poor Dave Pack, he has been blasting out a warning message for 17 years now and no one in the broader Church of God cares.  He has had 3 1/2 years of prophecies fail.  Superfantabulous Dave is not so superfantabulous after all!
    I would submit to you, that moment has not yet come. I’m not a ruler. You are not. We have no authority. We have no reach, no power, to get to the splinters to hear or see us. We just passed a couple days ago, seventeen-and-a-half years old. I have tried for one-and-three-quarter-decades of my life, with all my heart and mind and soul and being…You’ve seen the books…to try to movepeople, and they’re not listening. I have no authority over them; neither do any of our ministers; neither do any of our staff. We are not, currently, today—and it is impossible to say that we are—in any sense, ruler over all of God’s household…yet! But at a point, prior to when He comes, it says we better be found so doing. At some point, we will be. I would submit to you, it’s not exactly clear when that happens.
    Maybe there’s a way to view it where it’s already happened, because we’re giving them tools and they might start listening. But I would submit to you, the greater way to think of it, is when they have no shepherds—there’s no one to tell them what to do—they’re crying day and night, in what can only be called, perfectly, by God, a fire and they’re not allowed out. Their “go” signal, their “exit” signal, is a point after the wicked leave. God has curiously flipped it. They’re going to find they’re the only ones left. And somebody has to be working with them and found so doing that. Because that’s what His household is—all of his domestic affairs. To give them food—feed the flock of slaughter; to give them meat in due season—kairos, a set appointed time right before Christ returns—where you feedthem.
    Dave is still predicting that tens of thousands of COG Members will soon be fleeing their respective COG groups and joining up with Dave and his band a merry makers.  Just think what a fun day it will be to see Bob Thiel bowing before Dave in obedience.  Just imagine James Malm and Vic Kubik being subservient to Dave.  What a scene that will be!  Just imagine Dave swiping Gerald Flurry's Stone of Scone  and placing it in Wadsworth.

    What an absolute pathetic mess Armstrongism has turned into.  It is an embarrassment.  30 years after having a chance to make it right, all they do is bicker, whine and self-appoint themselves to new lofty positions, of which not a single one of them is qualified for.

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    Dear Split (UCG/LCG), Splinter (RCG/PCG)  Sliver (CCG) and Assorted Types Attracted to Those Who Claim to Know...

    When you listen, week after week, month after month, year after year and now decade after decade to your under educated, poorly trained, Biblically haunted,  self absorbed, tale weaving, psychologically unstable, personality deficient, title taking,  mistaken and misapplication prone Apostle, "Prophet" or Pastor, allow yourself what all people are entitled to in life to wonder about and openly ask of any one who insists you believe them. 

    Is this true?  Is this reasonable?  Is it kind?  Can we prove this?  How does he know that?  Is he stable?  Does the Bible really mean that?  Is this for us today?  Is it confusing and causing confusion?  Does it matter?  What is the chance this fantastical view is correct?   What will happen to me/us if it is not correct?  Do my concerns, fears and questions about this matter him?  What has happened to those who have disagreed in the past?  Was that the proper response to "prove all things?" Will he apologize personally if completely wrong?  If he was wrong then why is he right now?  If he is wrong again, why would he be right in the future?  What does "In the multitude of counsel there is safety" mean to my leaders?  ...and all the other questions that race through your mind as well as thinking your  doubts should match the questions you actually ask and wish an answer for without fear of unintended consequences.
    It's ok to ask....

     Why be skeptical?

    Nobody should be skeptical just because they are told by me or by a teacher or by a parent that they should be skeptical.   I believe there are good reasons why people should be skeptical, especially if they are interested in knowing and believing what is true and what is reasonable to believe:
    1. People are often dishonest, deceptive, or have been deceived by others.
    2. People are often irrational or motivationally biased in their thinking (e.g. egocentrism, sociocentism, wishful thinking, superstition, and sexism).
    3. People have natural tendencies to think illogically, even when they manage to avoid being irrational or motivationally biased in their thinking (e.g. hasty generalization, post hoc fallacy, confirmation bias, false dilemma, errors based on the ‘representativeness heuristic’, belief bias (“When one’s evaluation of the logical strength of an argument is biased by their belief in the truth or falsity of the conclusion.” See article on Cognitive Bias: )
    4. Most of what people believe, they “learned” from others (parents, teachers, pastors, friends, books, magazines, television, movies, newspapers, blogs) who are usually not experts in, and not well-informed about, the topics that they were talking about. Misinformation is a widespread cultural phenomenon.
    5. The truth or the best solution to a problem is often difficult to figure out, even when everyone involved is thinking logically, rationally, and being honest (which is almost never the case).
    6. Skepticism works, especially in relation to trying to understand nature and how natural processes work.  Science works by challenging claims, assumptions, and theories, and by demanding carefully gathered facts and data to support claims, assumptions, hypotheses and theories, and by subjecting scientific arguments, hypotheses, experiments, and theories to skeptical peer review."
    (A Timely Reminder and one of the greatest COG quotes of all time )

    "I want to make a statement, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you  if I go off into strange ideas,  misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct,because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And  I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere.

    Dave Pack
    December 12, 1998

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    From an LCG source:

    Tomorrow's World Now (Live) . Actual quotes (excerpts from first 4 minutes out of 20):

    Host Dylan King: It's a brand new technology.
    We're excited to come to you right now, live, wherever you might be. You might be on your phone, you might be on your computer, you might be at home, you might be at work, you might be in Asia, you might be in India. You could be ANYWHERE in the world and seeing us RIGHT NOW, which is SO exciting for us to be able to talk to you, right here now.
    What do you think about this really neat endeavor that the Living Church of God is doing through Tomorrow's World now; this new show?

    Wyatt Ciesielka: First of all, I'm really excited about it. God has called his church to preach the gospel to the world and this is one way we can do it.
    It's a big day for us. Hopefully God will bless it (scornful comment: if you don't get huge numbers does it mean God isn't blessing it?), hopefully those who watch it online will pray for us and pray that it will be blessed, and that it can be effective (scornful comment: if it fails we know who to blame, the faithless viewers!) .

    Host: Right now there's probably 10, 20, 30, we don't know how many people watching, but, you know, there's  a really HUGE potential out there for this technology (scornful comment: but if nobody views it other than LCG members it means that God is obviously not calling anyone, so it's still a success because you tried but it wasn't in God's will for anyone to view, right?). I mean, how many people are actually on Facebook these days? 'Cause I know it grows pretty much every day, every minute, every hour, right?

    Wyatt Ciesielka: Some stats that we looked up before the show, there are more than 5 new profiles created every second. Uh, there's probably about 2 billion active Facebook users, some uh, sources say about 1.9 billion, but those are ACTIVE Facebook users.

    Um, and we know Facebook reaches people all around the world, like you were mentioning. There's something also coming out, uh, which we're excited about, it might be an opportunity for us to reach people in the developing world: Facebook Lite.
    Yeah, and what's really, uh, exciting, and I think, um, you know, we know that uh, media can be used for good or bad, we understand that. But, uh, I think the church has to take advantage of technology, and doors that God opens.

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  • 04/11/17--10:49: But I Kept The Sabbath!!!!!

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    Since Herbert Armstrong's death in 1986, hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups have broken off of the mother church.  Each one claiming they hold the exclusive rights to what God actually thinks and expects.  One self-appointed apostate after another have set themselves up as God's exclusive mouthpiece here on earth. Dreams and endless revelations come to these fools daily.

    In spite of all the disunity, one might expect that the Church of God would be unified in keeping it's Old Covenant version of the Passover.  Even with that, the Church of God is divided.

    Some groups claim Passover was a few days ago on the might of the 9th, other's like James Malm say it is tonight, the 11th.  Others claim it is later this week.  Others sat outside in the early mornings waiting for the slightest sliver of the moon to show up over Jerusalem and others were outside looking for barley grains, whether in barley fields or along side roads where stray barley has taken root.   If it is there, the legalists will find it.

    Chief Pharisee Malm is particularly incensed at those who do not keep it on the same day he does

    “Jesus ate the Passover early so that he could die when the lambs were sacrificed and Israel sacrificed the lambs on the afternoon of the 14th and ate it on the end of the 14th:” 

    That is modern apostate Rabbinic practice designed to deny the Messiahship of Christ by confusing the date of the Passover.

    I cannot imagine why this gross heresy is pushed so hard – behind the scenes – in the various COG groups today; except that Satan seeks to confuse the brethren with lies and blind people to the truth. 

    Just under the surface Tkach Evangelicalism is spread very deep and wide in today’s COG groups by Tkach loyalists; especially in UCG and LCG’s Living U. There is a reason why M.G. was so furious at me teaching the truth, because he hates the truth and is a secret Tkachie; yet he runs like a rabbit when I take a stand and insist that he prove his doctrinal attacks. James

    How can the COG ever be unified when it cannot keep its sacred Passover together as one?  Even worse, most of these foolish men all claim they will be heading to Petra where God is going to give them final training.  Imagine what a fight will erupt there since none of them can get along together today.  Laughingly, they all expect to do some major mind boggling work in the near further.  They won't and they can't.

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    Imagine tens of thousands of present day church members and ex-members flooding into the Restored Church of God.  Dave sees these people also becoming part of the wicked that end up following the two shepherds because the brethren are really, really stupid and think these two men will be the two witless witnesses.  These two men will deceive most of the brethren along with the gullible public.  These two wicked shepherds are crafty and cunning men.  They will make the COG members and thousands of pagans turn over all of their money to the true church for its use.  Hundreds of millions of dollars will flow into superfantabulous Dave's empire.  The glory days will be here!

    Now, how does the trial end? Well, this is the brilliant genius of God…I know I’ve explained these things, but I want it all clear. How does the trial end? The trial ends, not with the righteous leaving the wicked, and there went all the assets…but God has Satan’s agents loot the wicked and then has them all leave. They’re sent an additional delusion in some way, and out go thousands and thousands of the wicked. They just depart, and the righteous are left with everything and then they’re told to go to the mountain—because there’s only one government left. That’s why it says “the mountain” and bring the wood. Bring home the beef bacon…or turkey bacon. So God loots the wicked. And if the righteous leave they are disobeying God’s command to stay and bring the assets, because those assets are going to be used.
    The wicked are literally going to contribute…and the devil always does. He stumbles into serving God’s purpose. They’re going to gather all…All of this, enormous funds, is going to be used in the Kingdom of God to “juice” us in a way we probably can’t even imagine; but I’m going to tell you, it will involve hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. It has to. It’s the net worth of a large group, plus all the assets they brought going in—just corporately—as well as the individual groups.
    Now let’s understand a few other things. God has to have a way to test thousands of people before He brings them back to His flock, so He has to…He hands them over to Satan. That’s what this is. For a longtime, I first thought, wow, the Man of Sin is in the Church, but what we never really addressed is why. Why would God raise up two wizards and a false Jesus and jam all of His peopleunder those men? Why would you do that if you’re God? For the same reason the five other cases I cited, scripturally, He turns them over to Satan. It’s to test them—to forge and temper—and toughen—and wizen them. And after suffering, people learn. Suffering kicks the mental learning mechanism into gear. I learned that decades ago. I think the fifth sermon I ever gave was on the subject of suffering.

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    Leave it to Gerald Flurry to imitate Herbert Armstrong in another endeavor.  Never one to come up with anything original, Flurry had to buy his own flying whorehouse so that he too can fly unencumbered by having to sit next to the unwashed masses on regular planes.  That is one of the excuses that the Philadelphia Church of God actually used when they tried to justify buying the plane.  Gerald Flurry, God's special chosen prophet/apostle, should not have to fly sitting next to dirty and uncouth passengers who might give him a cold or perhaps accost him for preaching utter nonsense.

    Philadelphia Church of God is having money issues and yet the church buys a jet that sells for over $12,000,000.00 for a 2008  model and up to $43,000,000.00 for a brand new one. Average cost for a used jet is $16,000,000.00. It is considered one of the least economical jets out there when compared to others.

    One thing is for certain, Flurry's grand kids will now be able to fly in luxury as they fly around the world to enter Irish Dance contests.  After all, this is the official dance of the Kingdom of God and who better to teach it than a Flurry family member.  Being an elite in the Church of God still has its rewards.

    Original Price:  $38,000,000.00
    Compared to the average cost for all Private aircraft, which is $496,400, the Gulfstream G450 costs:
    • $37,753,600 more expensive (a 7,606% premium)
    Fuel Cost     per Nautical mile:  $6.072
    Fuel cost per seat per nautical mile:   $75.90 
    Compared to the average fuel costs for all Private aircraft, which are $0.58* per nautical mile and 23.79¢* per seat per nautical mile, the Gulfstream G450 costs:
    • $5.49 more expensive per nautical mile (a 947% premium)
    • 52.11¢ more expensive per seat per nautical mile (a 219% premium)
    *Assumes a $6 cost per gallon of jet fuel
    1 Nautical Mile = 1.15 Miles 

    Once this was announced on Facebook, the happy-clappy seals starting giving their accolades to this miracle from god.

    Monte Carlo Awesome news... prayers answered. 👍
    LikeReply8 hrs
    Matty Dodds God has blessed his people.
    LikeReply8 hrs
    Michelle Guenther My prayer 🙏 is for safe travels to teach of the coming kingdom of God
    LikeReply17 hrs
    Seema Stewart God is truly Blessing His Work in this Jeroboam end...GREAT NEWS.

    Seema Stewart God is really speeding up things.....look out world...last pass...feeling excited...
    LikeReply16 hrs
    Andy LaMantia Shoulda gotten a bigger one to fly you all to the place of safety
    LikeReply5 hrs
    Danny Foreman Gulfstream like hwa had
    LikeReply3 hrs

    Ghay Catbagan Answered prayers....
    LikeReply47 mins
    Fernando Antaneeta Wow good job.
    This is the fruit of unity and it express the love of our creator God.
    LikeReply29 mins
    Patrick Edenfield Bless you. I hope you carry on the Work like Mr. Armstrong did.
    LikeReply4 hrs

    John Furch Another major piece has been restored

    Not everyone was as excited as the gullible ones

    Jacob Israel Who among the world leaders have the PCG get in contact with so far?
    LikeReply2 hrs

    Arthur Blackwell What do you need a private jet for though?
    LikeReply79 hrs
    Ellie Rhoades Jesus's apostles were told to go spread the word and NOT to take anything with them. So what I can't understand is WHY the PCG and other entities can't give back or give to the poor NOT to mention EVERY preacher/minister etc has new cars and big houses
    LikeReply28 hrsEdited

    JoshandCecelia Smith Wonder how many children could have been fed or widows could have been cared for or for that matter how my churches could have been built? I really don't believe Christ would have done that😔
    LikeReply16 hrs
    Karen Duncan Send all your money to it and I'm sure it will help build a building for your services.
    LikeReply5 hrs
    Karen Duncan Evidently you don't belong to Gods Church
    LikeReply5 hrs

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    The Church of God a Worldwide Association had an article out recently on the attributes of a true prophet.  Now that the Church of God feels it is getting close to the end times Herbert preached about, more and more of them are discussing prophets.  Part of that issue might also arose from the fact we have a myriad of fools in the COG who have self appointed themselves as God's end time mouthpiece.  From Wadsworth Ohio to Edmond Oklahoma, to Arroyo Grande California, the foolish shepherds are proclaiming their unholy attribute of prophethood.

    COGWA listed these qualities of a prophet in the COG community:

    Four tests to prove whether a prophet is true 

    We need to carefully consider God’s Word—the Bible—in order to discern between false and true prophets. The Bible provides four tests to determine the genuineness of a prophet.

    1. Does the conduct of the prophet reflect godly character?

    2. Do the predictions of the prophet come true?
    3. Are the words of the prophet consistent with Scripture?
    4. Do the people benefit spiritually from the prophet’s ministry?

    Do you know of any man in the Church of God that fits ANY of those criteria?  Certainly no COG minister, evangelists or church leader has any of those attributes...well, maybe except for one...

    I will give you one guess as to WHO thinks he is the one and only true mouthpiece of God's prophetic word...

    It is our very own Almost-arrested Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Chief Overseer and the bitter disappointing "son" of Rod Meredith!  Who knew?????????  Shocking!  Right?

    Here is what the glorious end time prophet had to say in regards to COGWA's list:

    Although COGWA left out some criteria, even based upon the above criteria, there is one person in one of the COGs that meets all those criteria, and he is not part of COGWA, but physically heads up the (improperly named) Continuing Church of God (CCOG). 
    Not only does apostate Thiel claim he is a true prophet, he also make sit know that the knows MORE that COGWA does when it come to prophethood.  The delusional self-appointed fool claims he has another import attribute that makes him a true prophet.  He dreams dreams!  It still boggles my mind that this man is still claiming a nightmare he had over some bad seafood make shim a prophet!

    The Bible teaches:
    6 “Hear now My words:
    If there is a prophet among you,
    I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision;a
    I speak to him in a dream. (Numbers 12:6)
    I had at least two such dreams, and others had dreams, essentially concerning those about me 
    So what is going to happen to those of us who who know Apostate Bob to be a false prophet and mock him regularly?   We will not receive a prophet's reward!

    He says this:
    Consider also that Jesus taught:
    41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. (Matthew 10:41) 
    Jesus is telling His followers that if a true prophet is out there, that they need to follow. Yet, in this Laodicean time (Revelation 3:14-18), most real Christians will not listen to what Jesus said on this and many other matters.
    Apostate and self-appointed Thiel is NOT a prophet.  He never has been and will never be one.  No one in their right mind should be following this certified liar who self-appointed himself, gave himself all kinds of titles and preaches absurd sermons in front of crooked bookcases, file cabinets, doorways and sheer curtains.   Nor does thrusting your big Bible in the air make you a real minister.

    Towards the end of silly screed he has some more Bible verses to quote that he claims talks about himself and his status as prophet:

    In the (improperly named) Continuing Church of God:
    19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
    20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:19-21, KJV)
    Apostate Their does NOT have the "sure word of prophecy," never has and never will.  No one in there right mind needs to heed the words of this delusional foolish false prophet.  There is no "light shining in a dark place" in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.  Every single thing Apostate Thiel utters as "truth" is directly his OWN interpretation of how he WANTS things to be.
    I can also state as a sure fact that the Holy Spirit is NOT using Elijah Thiel or inspiring him words to speak.  Even Rod Meredith saw through the delusional mental meltdown of Amos Thiel years ago and refused to acknowledge Elisha Thiel's self appointed prophethood.

    What Apostate Thiel promotes is counterfeit Christianity.

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  • 04/14/17--07:54: Cruci-Fiction?

  • "Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?... And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves (after his resurrection,) and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
     (Matthew 27:45-53)
    All these things happened at the same time and at the ninth hour in context. Never mind that no one ever mentions this event again. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing during the second half of the first century AD, produced two major works: History of the Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews. He says nothing about this most extraordinary occurrence. This one missed his attention big time so he reports nothing of this, and does not interview any of the "many" who must have been around for years after just itching to be asked about how it felt to be back.
    Peter never mentions it in all his attempts to convince the masses that Jesus did rise, in fact, from the dead. Paul never mentions this event as proof of Jesus resurrection either and of course had died before any such tales were told. The early church seems to have overlooked it as well.  The fact that these risen saints must still be alive and now members in good standing of the early Church never seems to come up. You'd think they at least would get to be deacons and elders! I would hope they did not rise then die again real fast when they were no longer needed as a type of the general resurrection of the saints! One death is scary enough and the few who were not part of the many resurrected might be the lucky ones after all.
    Everything in the Bible is so dramatic! The sun goes out for three hours and the earth shakes, renting rocks. And if the rocks rent, why did not most of Jerusalem, including the Temple fall down? High roof, pillars, big basins--all good candidates for renting and falling over. But, of this, no one records a thing, save for this one observation by Matthew. But back to the account.

    "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
     (Matthew 27:45-53)
    So here we have Jesus on the cross, still alive and distressed that God has forsaken him. At this time it appears, or perhaps by implication, at the moment of his death, the graves of many of the "saints" open and they rise from the dead. Well not quite yet because it appears someone spotted a problem with this verse and added just a bit to make it doctrinally acceptable for future reads.
    But first, what's with these people being "saints?" Aren't saints members in good standing of the Church and converted Christians? Jesus is not even dead yet, or just died! There is no church and certainly no saints unless just following Jesus around as a curious follower the past one or three years depending on which Gospel you read qualified one as a "saint." It is something you would ad to the story when the church was up and running decades later.

    Some believe these may have been Old Testament "Saints" such as Adam and Eve, Moses, Isaiah, Abraham and other notables listed in Hebrews 11.  You'd at least think this would be noted and having these folk back might qualify them for some positions of leadership in the early church.  This reasoning merely reflects the fact that this story stretched the imaginations of even the early church fathers who also found this tale fantastical.
    Secondly, it says that it was a resurrection of "many bodies of the saints." Many? What happened to "all." There could not have been too many to leave some behind! Can you imagine the conversations that must have followed in the weeks following this event?

    "Hey, Shlomo is back! So, where is your Benjamin? Oh, really? Not one of the many huh? Sorry." Or...
    "Hey Mary, my Sol, who you remember, died last year, says hi. So wasn't your husband one of the blind that Jesus healed, and died about the same time. What's he up to today?"
    Anyway, it seems that only the many but not the all got raised. 
    Next we have the problem of the graves being opened, but no one being allowed to come out of them until after Jesus personal resurrection. This is where being doctrinally correct comes in. Not correcting this would cause the same problem some have with Matthew's story of Herod killing all the babies endeavoring to get to the newborn Jesus.  It would seem that all those babies had to die for Jesus before he died for them, some reason.  
    Matthew, or the editor who spotted this problem, could not have Jesus being preceded in resurrection, by any, much less, many of the "saints." This would be putting the cart before the horse. Jesus could not be the "first born of many brethren," if many of the brethren had already been up and running around from the dead while Jesus was either on the cross wondering why God had forsaken him, or newly dead and not yet resurrected himself. So the phrase, "after his resurrection" was inserted to make this a doctrinally correct event. Had that phrase, "after his resurrection," not been added, the story would be an unending source of doctrinal problems, as if it isn't now.
    So here we have these graves opened, but the bodies just lying there, open to view,  bones mostly, not bodies anymore, even though it said bodies. If it was decaying bodies, then Zombies. Then, after Jesus rose, the bodies stood up and went home to see the family and friends. You'd think someone would have mentioned this later, but it didn't make much of an impression on anyone but Matthew it seems.
    One other way this might have been was that the saints were brought back to life right when the graves opened, (how do they open I wonder?), but had to just lie there for three days and three nights until Jesus was back. Talk about boring and scary if you didn't know what was going on! You'd think, in either event, that the disciples, Joseph of Arimethea-- who buried Jesus, the women who brought spices to the tomb and everyone would have noticed all the opened graves and not of Jews or Romans, but of Saints!  Evidently no Romans noticed anything strange or at least did't record it. 
    If the graves were opened for three days, would not word get out and the town get about the business of filling them in again? If they were fresh bodies, what a stink and if they were alive fresh bodies laying low for now, what a scare! I can imagine, as a kid of course, a small crowd around each open grave chatting with the saint, and the saint saying, "Help me, I can't move. Not knowing he had to lay there until Jesus was resurrected first. I can also imagine a small crowd hearing this plea, dispersing rather speedily.
    Well, it's a great story that no one but Matthew seems to be aware of or use to further the Gospel. Knowing the writer of Matthew, it never happened. Matthew was great at over reaching and searching the scriptures to make a point about Jesus. Matthew could make an Old Testament story mean what it was never meant to mean. All of Matthew's "and thus it was fulfilled" accounts in the birth narratives of Jesus, where he goes back into the Old Testament to prove everything from Jesus virgin birth to it being predicted that he would be from Nazareth or return out of Egypt after Herod dies, are examples of this over reaching. No one else quite had this way of proving Jesus down pat as well as Matthew, whoever Matthew really was and may not be who you think. It would be a bit like me using portions of Lord of the Rings to show how Tolkien prophecied the rise of Donald Trump. .

    So off to visit friends in Jerusalem these saints went. But we have no names and no further accounts. We have no stories of happy reunions of the dead with the living. No one seems to write about this in any public records and no one ever after uses this event to further the proof of Jesus resurrection or the power of God. Actually, it never happened, and only the most uncritical thinker and die hard (pun intended :) literalist would dig this gravely strange story  as a real event in space and time (pun intended again:)

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    For several years now Dave Pack has been telling one tall tale after another.  His god is constantly giving him so many revelations that he cannot keep track of everything he is saying.  He has one superfantabulous revelation and reveals it to his members, then 3-4 weeks later he forgets what he had said  and contradicts himself.   Dave also has also had so many recent failed prophecies that he can't keep track of what them either.

    Dave has been posting scores of sermons aimed at the back-sliding Church of God member in various congregations.  These sermons are supposed to be filled with the most astounding information ever available to human kind, then ten sermons later he changes it or deletes stuff.  He is now admitting that is what he does.

    As we’re preparing all of these transcripts, one of the things we’re doing, brethren, is we’re cutting large swaths of it out wherever there was error and wherever there was any kind of exaggerated emphasis on me that could be offensive. I want all of that…I want to look like a mustard seed through the 49 or 50, 52 different parts of this. There are just some things I want to not say to everybody outside that they don’t need to hear. They don’t need to understand.
    I want them to understand this terrible trial they’re going to go through, that they can escape it; how the Kingdom of God will come, and where their part in it is. They don’t need to hear all the error that we’ve had to walk out of through this long series. They don’t need to hear what my role is, or there are just certain things that don’t need to be in it. Partly, to make it shorter and less daunting for even the most serious Bible students, who might say, can I really read all that? The serious ones will and others won’t, and we may break out certain ones for the people who say I don’t want to read them all, and we give them a chance to read certain key ones. The three on the Man of Sin might be such a case—this one, and Part 31, and one other that came a little later.
    So, in some of these parts of the series, I speculated, and some of that speculation is being cut out; some will be left in. But we’re going to speculate here. 

    Of course this is all under the guise that strong meat should not be put forth so that unwashed masses have access to it.  They only are able to understand baby pablum.  Only "true" COG members have the mental capacity of understand the meatier side of things.

    If Dave truly was a prophet of God then he would not care what people thought but would forcefully tell his story that he apparently believes in.  But he cannot do so.  He is embarrassed.  What is even worse is that his little league of man-boys in Wadsworth clap like happy seals at the moment Dave opens his mouth.  The never hold him accountable, even though some of them sitting there have to realize Dave is talking out his ass 99% of the time.

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    This is how Dave Pack and Bob Thiel think:
    I’ll just say this. If what I told you does not apply, I, nor any minister I have ever talked to, has the faintest idea what on Earth, Christ was talking about. We just don’t know, and it’s just there for some reason that not a single one of two thousand ministers could have ever known in the past. But you can appreciate that, in light of what I said, if I’m right, you can understand why no one would have ever had a clue what it was talking about. They had no chance to understand. That, not until you had lived through three years of doing what we did and noticed that Paul went three years, and then maybe there’s one more year to go…
    This translates into:
    Even though I do not know what I am talking about and even though I am 100% wrong, you must appreciate my trying. 
    This is the sad state of thinking hat pervades the church to this day.  No one holds their ministers accountable.  Various COG's never hold the obvious heretics like Pack, Malm, Flurry and Thiel  accountable for their lies.  "Oh, but they are our brethren, we cannot say anything bad about them." When they do not hold self-appointed liars accountable, then they too end up being lairs.  Their inaction allows the hundreds of splinter groups to function today. It allows the sick deviate men to ruin member lives and they do not care.  That is what we have so many fools running COG's today. Just look at Thiel, Malm, Pack, Wienland, Cox and Flurry.  Can there be 6 more idiotic men in  the Church of God today?

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            "I have an open mind . I am willing to be convinced but I have no firm opinion on it." Notice how the audience does not go crazy because their apologist is willing to say he has his doubts about the passage and everyone (except those not given to critical thinking) does.

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    Dave Pack continues is spiral decent down into madness.  Notice his description of Donald Trump below.  Regardless of whatever your stance is on Trump, Dave Pack proves he is certifiably nuts.  Dave's stance is in sharp contrast to the unordained and self-appointed foolish false prophet of the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god." Apostate Thiel claims Trump is the harbinger of the persecution.  Trump will supposedly stop Elisha Thiel from preaching his asinine message to the world.  Since neither of these buffoons vote, their opinions are worthless and irrelevant.

    Now, this particular president-elect, literally, is a builder. Arguably one of the greatest single builders the world has ever seen. He is the Herod the Great of the 21st century. He has employed more people…far, far, far and away—than all previous presidents put together—and probably tripled—and you could throw in the presidents, from the south, who were slave owners, if you want to call that employment. It wasn’t, it was slavery. So he understands how to build an economy.
    When you think of eating and drinking, it’s the way he thinks. He sells his own steaks and wine. And of course, it means there has to be a good climate, because there is planting and reaping. But again, Christ almost, as it were, goes out of His way to describe powerful conditions in play in the economy that were not going to go that way if the fellow in there stayed—or if the woman who wanted to replace him and carry out his social legacy won.
    Now, in the first 100 days, he has a whole series of things he wants to do. He has stated over and over again he’s going to do them, and all the people around him tell him he’s going to move big, bold and fast…And this is good for the Work in many ways…big—bold—and fast. He wants to take on Obamacare, which is great news for God’s people, but also for the economy.
    You’ll see higher wages, and people, who are either un- or under-employed are going to find more jobs. He’s going to do some trade deals. Businesses are already reacting, because they know regulations are going to be suppressed. The IRS is going to get off of peoples’ backs. There’ll be enormous tax cuts. Seven categories for the average person will turn into three. Corporate taxes, at 35 percent, are going to crash to 15. They are among the highest in the world…
    I’ll tell you in a minute why the promises he’s making—he’s going to keep, even though his enemies and the opposition in America is going to do EVERYTHING in their power to stop him. I think even the devil will try to stop him because he’s going to feed prophecy. Obviously, the danger for the brethren—all of you—is that you can begin to understand better why Christ said many will go to sleep. They’ll be unaware, or they’ll get, proverbially, spiritually, or even literally, drunken, because the world is going to go into a party-time the likes of which it has never seen.
    When you have a mega-billion billionaire, whose name is splashed all over the world, he dwarfs the profile of any other president, probably, whose ever lived. These buildings all have his name. He’s “branded” like nobody’s business. He understands the world’s economy because he’s in it. He’s fearless because he’s walked into all kinds of banks and boardrooms, facing enemies, and every time, he takes them down…
    He understands that lower taxes are going to drive the economy. He understands the EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] is crushing the farmers, and it’s crushing ranchers in the west. Most of you don’t realize the EPA claims control—on this campus—everywhere there is a puddle after rain, literally, and until that puddle dries out, the EPA does not give up its sovereign control of places where water pools. That’s how bad it’s gotten. He’s going to sweep that aside like a wind pushing away leaves—and he will do it.


    He lives in an environment that is so beautiful, he’ll be the only person to ever downsize into the White House. Think about it. He lives in a world of gold and silver and marble and crystal and magnificent rugs and quality materials—and people will identify with him…We’re not talking about an improvement in morality here, but there are a lot of people who’ve not had jobs…The last 50 years has seen it that way. 

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    Everything about Dave Packs always descends back to his favorite subject, money  All money in the world belongs to God.  Because Dave is God's "chosen one" it is therefore logical that all money in the world belongs to  Dave and if all the money in the world belongs to Dave then that means all tithe money in ALL the various Church of God's belongs to Dave.  With all of that tithe money coming in, the quicker he can build his auditorium and student center.  When he accomplishes this then his "jesus" can return and have a stage to speak from and a dining hall to have his meals prepared in.

    Now that Trump has been elected all Americans will soon be getting high paying jobs and therefore his members will now get more money due to raises and bonuses.  That extra money will be willingly sent into Dave so he can build his superfantabulous compound in Wadsworth.

    Now I’m excited, because, obviously, God’s people can go back to work, and we’re commanded to go to work. So it’s going to benefit the Work. Not only will new people pour into the Work, as I’m describing, but a lot of people who are here are going to start getting jobs, who are un- or under-employed, and wages will start to go up. Taxes will drop—that will all benefit God’s Work on top of the growth. So the Work should begin to boom…we already see it is, but boom in a greater way than it did before. Now again, it means more isolation, which also fits prophecy.
    But the IRS has been targeting conservative organizations. Banks are going to start opening up and lending more. I talk to a lot of bankers. They have guns pointing at them from all directions. If property values go up, it will benefit God’s people around the world, but I wouldn’t be surprised if our appraisals soon reflect millions more dollars of value in this campus—which was a long-range goal I had and said so, many times—simply because a little time passes, not because we built anything else. Which means the Work can borrow more if need be…But if the value of the campus were not going up, then you couldn’t do that…

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    From a PCG source:

    In classic dance mom style, pushy American parent Stephen Flurry gets into the spirit of the Days of Unleavened Bread by taking to Twitter to boast of his vicarious victory in Irish dancing by posting a tweet of his son Jude coming eighth place in a recent competition.   Stephen, “newly-revealed heir to the throne of England” Flurry posts the following:

    I wonder how many of the rank and file PCG members would be able to reconcile an activity like this during what is supposed to be a week of humble reflection through removing human nature and the spirit of this world which Herbert W Armstrong summed up in the word Competition.  

    In the same week when PCG completed the purchase of a private jet and now Stephen Flurry’s son takes part in a regional dance competition, you have to realistically wonder where the heir-apparent’s spiritual focus has really been.

    If this was an ordinary PCG member they would be on the receiving end of severe correction from the ministry for having a wrong focus during this pivotal time.

    Anyway now that Prince Stephen has his own private jet perhaps Jude will lift his game and come seventh next time….

    1 Cor 13:4 (NKJV) Love … does not parade itself…

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    Dave has been preaching for a while now about Jesus returning twice in the next 2,000 years.  Jesus returns soon to cleanse and rebuild the world, which suffers after a great war, then after he is here for 1,000 years he will resurrect the rest of the saints and then the millennium will happen where Satan will be given a chance to come and deceive the entire world again.

    Though be careful though.  God is going to send a fake "jesus" the flies around to deceive COG members after they have jumped ship to join the Restore Church of God.  Ever the trickster god, he is doing this deliberately to embarrass the COG members.
    We actually never had a month like the one we’re having now. A couple of freak occurrences, way back, where a giant bunch of people came with us, kind of…in a cluster…confused our record, or it would be the most growth we’ve ever had.
    But God is going to work with…He loves His people, and He chastises them. And it’s going to be horribly embarrassing to them—even the survivors—that they were in such terrible condition that God had to send the false Jesus, that would rock the world and sit in that church! No! Put him in the Presbyterian church! Make him a Methodist! Surely, he’ll sit in Rome, right? No. No…Because the fraud wouldn’t work for either of the groups. The one I’ve told you about this week, or the group I’m going to tell you about next week. It’s got to be extremepowerful fraud, and at the same time, wonderfully help your people. But, oh, is it incredibly embarrassing.

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  • 04/16/17--11:04: Jesus Christ is Risen Today

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    It is an interesting contrast to read the absolute putrid drivel coming our of the deluded false prophet Almost-arrested  Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, doubly blessed but not ordained, dream weaver, second witless witness and bitter disappointing "son" to Rod Meredith, Bob Thiel and the Chief Pharisee James Malm about how they face persecution for "boldly" preaching their messages of bondage.  Even United Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God and the Restored Church of God cry about persecution and being constantly attacked by "satan." these foolish men have no idea what persecution is as they sit in the warm safe homes in 100% safe environments which allow them to preach and print their daily piles of pig slop.

    These lying fools do not know what real persecution is.  All of these men are weak little milquetoasts who cry at the slighted whiff of anyone disagreeing with them. "Oh woe is me, I am being persecuted. Oh what will I do?  Gary and and Dennis are making mocking me and called me a fool!  Woe! Oh woe is me!"

    Contrast this to the Coptic Christians in Egypt today.  Last week two horrific bombs were planted in their churches that killed scores of people.  Hundreds were injured.  These people face daily persecution.  Real persecution, unlike the COG version of persecution. Then, one week later, on Easter day, they came out to put faith into action with a trust in God that was more important than personal safety.  Can you imagine any of the pissants leading a COG doing such a thing?  They would be cowering in their basements thumbing through their big thick Moffatt Bibles looking for some kind of new revelation that they can bastardize as new truth.

    "I don't think the churches are any emptier, in fact they might be fuller," said Bishop Angaelos.
    "But it just means people leave home knowing they are a target, but that doesn't stop them."
    One Copt who gave his name only as John said he will attend Easter mass despite the threat of attacks.

    Despite Bombings, Egypt’s Martyred Christian Church Celebrates Easter

    Targeted for slaughter by the so-called Islamic State, poorly protected by the Sisi government, Egypt’s Copts are struggling to survive in their ancient homeland.
    See story here

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